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#1 2011-09-26 05:06:21

pablokal
Administrator
From: Nijmegen, Holland
Registered: 2010-10-12
Posts: 3,633
Website

Note about pacman & feedback about urxvt/jumanji

Not exactly a bug, but when doing sudo pacman -S firefox you get the error could not open database; because you have to do before: sudo pacman -Syy.
This should be prominent in the doc.

Webbrowser and terminal choice I do find quite bothersome.
The fact that you choose jumanji and urxvt  I personally find to go against the whole idea of AB, that is to give people an easy intro to Arch.
When I want to discover a new distro I don't want to be forced to get to learn these both programs that are really into a special way of using the keyboard etc.
I know your reaction is; it is easy enough to install  another program and I agreed before on that, but now experiencing to whole new ensemble I find it too elitist (in that you have to know your way round with keyboard driven apps like jumanji and urxvt) and not open enough, not easy approachable enough for the newcomer. The balance is lost imho.
It is daunting enough for the new user to become used to openbox. At least give him the ease of lxterminal and chromium  or firefox. Both are important tools in the first (live) use of the distro.

Of course all depends on who you want to reach with AB.
But I really think it's a shame to rise the learning curve in starting to use AB in such a frivolous way.
A distro will be often judged and/or rejected  rather superficially on the first experiences with it.
I get what flavour you 're offering, what you're trying to do, but again I find the choices too rigid.


Getting your questions answered here at ArchBang Forums
Please! Always give hardware info, if there is a chance that 's relevant: #lspci -vnn
On Arch(bang) and Openbox: http://stillstup.blogspot.com/

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#2 2011-09-26 05:19:10

willxtreme
The Cook
From: Longueuil, Quebec, Canada
Registered: 2010-10-06
Posts: 275

Re: Note about pacman & feedback about urxvt/jumanji

Good thing I've included in the doc how to copy/paste w/ urxvt and basic commands for jumanji but I'll add that you must pacman -Syy in the first place before installing a new package thanks smile

-Between Ctrl+Shift+V (in lxterminal) and a simple middle mouse click (in urxvt) to paste, I find urxvt more simple to use.
-As of the default browser, maybe midori would be the right choice-> I'll check tonight the size of the generated iso w/ Midori

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#3 2011-09-26 07:06:50

pablokal
Administrator
From: Nijmegen, Holland
Registered: 2010-10-12
Posts: 3,633
Website

Re: Note about pacman & feedback about urxvt/jumanji

Thanks for moving this topic; I hadn't time to do it earlier when I realized I put at the wrong place.

Good thing I've included in the doc how to copy/paste w/ urxvt and basic commands for jumanji

I saw those indications and it is helpful.
But doesn't solve the problem that the newcomer is probably facing trouble using these , is not as ease using them. Urxvt has no right click copy function, which is the graphical way of doing copy.
With Midori I had so much crashes in the past that I stopped trying to use it. Is someone using it on a regular basis and being able to give feedback on the stability at the moment?


Getting your questions answered here at ArchBang Forums
Please! Always give hardware info, if there is a chance that 's relevant: #lspci -vnn
On Arch(bang) and Openbox: http://stillstup.blogspot.com/

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#4 2011-09-26 08:44:05

willxtreme
The Cook
From: Longueuil, Quebec, Canada
Registered: 2010-10-06
Posts: 275

Re: Note about pacman & feedback about urxvt/jumanji

pablokal wrote:

Midori I had so much crashes in the past that I stopped trying to use it

lol same here but that was on November 2010 -> then I'll let jumanji but I'll move up the instructions for it in the DOC to find them quickly. I don't want to break the cap of 460MB. I personaly wish I knew jumanji earlier but it is not as known as firefox/opera/etc. I was actually hesitating between jumanji & uzbl when I was looking for a more lightweight and stable browser.

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#5 2011-09-26 09:07:30

oliver
Administrator
Registered: 2010-11-04
Posts: 2,209

Re: Note about pacman & feedback about urxvt/jumanji

willxtreme wrote:

I don't want to break the cap of 460MB. I personaly wish I knew jumanji earlier but it is not as known as firefox/opera/etc.

What is the relevance of 460MB?

FWIW, I love jumanji (but then again, I also love vi and keyboard shortcuts)

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#6 2011-09-26 09:08:20

ArchVortex
Retired
From: Ts’elxweyeqw, Canada
Registered: 2011-04-01
Posts: 1,465

Re: Note about pacman & feedback about urxvt/jumanji

Will,

When it's ready, can you send me a copy of your instructions so I can add it to the Wiki, please? Thanks!!


You have the capacity to learn from mistakes. You'll learn a lot today.
FP:E5F8 7DBA 8128 9ACB 75F7 7279 BE34 AB66 76D9 16DE
KEY ID:76D916DE
Currently running ArchBang / LFS / OpenSUSE Tumbleweed

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#7 2011-09-26 10:44:02

willxtreme
The Cook
From: Longueuil, Quebec, Canada
Registered: 2010-10-06
Posts: 275

Re: Note about pacman & feedback about urxvt/jumanji

oliver wrote:

What is the relevance of 460MB?

It's just that back in 2010.06 w/ AB Apeiro, our iso used to be 478Mo and w/ time, I've added some stuff in it but I want to keep AB as light as possible so that's why I have set a new limit @ 460Mo (which is possible to respect like in rc2) and users will still get all the goodness smile
(If I could set a lower limit, I would but the current set of packages is great)

archvortex wrote:

Will,
When it's ready, can you send me a copy of your instructions so I can add it to the Wiki, please? Thanks!!

EDIT: Sure when ready smile

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#8 2011-09-26 11:40:48

Mr Green
Administrator
Registered: 2010-11-07
Posts: 6,920

Re: Note about pacman & feedback about urxvt/jumanji

Is there a way to capture if pacman is on first run [ie database] that way user could be warned [pacman -Syyu?]

This for live iso only, install you are on your own

Could direction of Archbang go, create your own iso? ala Larch we supply the tools you build it and shape the way you want it?

Effectively Archbang gives you the tools/artwork to get an iso?

my2c


Comments, suggestions please feel free to contact me mrgreen(at)archbang(dot)org

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#9 2011-09-26 20:16:38

willxtreme
The Cook
From: Longueuil, Quebec, Canada
Registered: 2010-10-06
Posts: 275

Re: Note about pacman & feedback about urxvt/jumanji

Midori fits -> I get 460MB. I'm going to use it as my main browser til October 31st to check its stability & If it fails, then jumanji wins (last time I've been using Midori was in November 2010 and they were @ version v0.2.6 but now they are at version 0.4 and so far so good)

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#10 2011-09-26 23:09:22

ArchVortex
Retired
From: Ts’elxweyeqw, Canada
Registered: 2011-04-01
Posts: 1,465

Re: Note about pacman & feedback about urxvt/jumanji

Will,

I've done a Jumanji page for the Wiki at http://wiki.archbang.org/index.php?title=Jumanji  Edit as you see fit smile

I haven't had any stability problems using Midori in a long time, mind you, it's not my main browser.


You have the capacity to learn from mistakes. You'll learn a lot today.
FP:E5F8 7DBA 8128 9ACB 75F7 7279 BE34 AB66 76D9 16DE
KEY ID:76D916DE
Currently running ArchBang / LFS / OpenSUSE Tumbleweed

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#11 2011-09-27 08:44:23

Kruppt
Moderator
From: Blue Ridge Mountains, NC
Registered: 2010-12-20
Posts: 299

Re: Note about pacman & feedback about urxvt/jumanji

Jumanji...good find
Cool Light weight browser.

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#12 2011-09-27 10:57:49

willxtreme
The Cook
From: Longueuil, Quebec, Canada
Registered: 2010-10-06
Posts: 275

Re: Note about pacman & feedback about urxvt/jumanji

willxtreme wrote:

Midori fits -> I get 460MB. I'm going to use it as my main browser til October 31st to check its stability & If it fails, then jumanji wins (last time I've been using Midori was in November 2010 and they were @ version v0.2.6 but now they are at version 0.4 and so far so good)

I've experienced the unfixed download dialog bug lol-> it happens to me all the times when I try to download archbang.zip from ompldr.org. Besides that, for normal surfing it works well but it can crash occasionally when you close a tab. For now, jumanji-git wins

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#13 2011-09-27 11:04:20

oliver
Administrator
Registered: 2010-11-04
Posts: 2,209

Re: Note about pacman & feedback about urxvt/jumanji

willxtreme wrote:

For now, jumanji-git wins

14xym4z.gif

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#14 2011-10-07 17:50:44

histo
Member
Registered: 2011-10-07
Posts: 3

Re: Note about pacman & feedback about urxvt/jumanji

I second that Jumanji is a bit much for new people. I however like it because I am so used to vim key bindings. I can see that new users would be put off by it. No buttons etc... by default.

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#15 2011-10-17 10:44:30

epzil0n
Member
From: Sweden
Registered: 2011-09-12
Posts: 36

Re: Note about pacman & feedback about urxvt/jumanji

willxtreme wrote:

Good thing I've included in the doc how to copy/paste w/ urxvt and basic commands for jumanji but I'll add that you must pacman -Syy in the first place before installing a new package thanks smile

-Between Ctrl+Shift+V (in lxterminal) and a simple middle mouse click (in urxvt) to paste, I find urxvt more simple to use.
-As of the default browser, maybe midori would be the right choice-> I'll check tonight the size of the generated iso w/ Midori

No you couldn't be more wrong about the copy/paste, to use the middle mouse it demands that you got a mouse with you which far from everybody got and i believe that many are using their netbook or laptop with AB, furthermore Ctrl+Shift-V works in all distros but not AB anymore and i had to change my ways of using screen and byobu since in urxvt it pops up a stupid little window as soon as i hit Ctrl-Shift (to important key-combos when working with screen).

Yes i also know that it isn't that hard to uninstall and then install LXTerminal or something, but i wanted to give urxvt a fair chance and i have to say that i just wasted days trying to learn urxvt and in the end i come up with no other solution then to uninstall it since there is no way for me to use the key-combos i want and in the same time be productive and i'm sure that the choice of terminal will only confuse new users and piss them off, that's my experience anyway.

As for the browser i don't care since i wont use anything else then Chromium and Firefox.

Last edited by epzil0n (2011-10-17 10:46:00)


Facito aliquid operis, ut te semper diabolus inveniat occupatum..

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#16 2011-10-17 10:52:16

oliver
Administrator
Registered: 2010-11-04
Posts: 2,209

Re: Note about pacman & feedback about urxvt/jumanji

epzil0n wrote:

No you couldn't be more wrong about the copy/paste, to use the middle mouse it demands that you got a mouse with you which far from everybody got and i believe that many are using their netbook or laptop with AB

both buttons together emulate a middle button if one doesn't exist (or is that something unique to my setup?)

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#17 2011-10-17 12:13:00

pablokal
Administrator
From: Nijmegen, Holland
Registered: 2010-10-12
Posts: 3,633
Website

Re: Note about pacman & feedback about urxvt/jumanji

(or is that something unique to my setup?)

I think the point is he hasn't a mouse, period.

I think  I would recommend anyone who is new to Openbox or Archbang to install  a more easy to use terminal like lxterminal. First get used to dmenu and all other possible keybindings in Openbox like for manipulating windows: http://stillstup.blogspot.com/2010/06/k … ndows.html.
To go for vi keybindings is quite something that has to be part of a personal process and should not be  shoved down your throat when you start using new distro like AB.


Getting your questions answered here at ArchBang Forums
Please! Always give hardware info, if there is a chance that 's relevant: #lspci -vnn
On Arch(bang) and Openbox: http://stillstup.blogspot.com/

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#18 2011-10-17 12:30:01

oliver
Administrator
Registered: 2010-11-04
Posts: 2,209

Re: Note about pacman & feedback about urxvt/jumanji

there are people running X without even a basic 2 button mouse?!?

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