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#1 2017-03-29 11:02:29

Mr Green
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Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

Been very quiet on forums over past couple of weeks, my thoughts are on summer release and anything I can add or remove to make it even better. Still very much on the fence about making ArchBang systemd free, while I want to go down the OpenRC route (and have no problem in doing so) concerned of effect on new users coming to ArchBang.

Will say that i686 version of ArchBang will no longer be available there seems little need for it (and looking at downloads it reflects this).

Might put out an rc update very soon if only to get kernel more up to date.


Comments, suggestions, donations please feel free to contact me mrgreen(at)archbang(dot)org Artix information https://artix-linux.github.io/migrate/

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#2 2017-03-29 14:32:49

joshg253
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From: Bellevue, WA
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Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

I just fired up the Spring Release, CrunchBang 10, and CrunchBang 11 ISOs in VirtualBox. Here's my 2¢, adjusted for inflation:

First, I have no need for 32-bit anymore.

Based upon the name ArchBang, I'd expect to boot into something that looks & feels almost exactly like CrunchBang 10 or 11, but has the greatness of Arch as the guts. Spring Release neither looks nor feels like either, but I think it's an excellent start.

With that in mind, first & foremost I'd strive to make it look/behave like Statler or Waldorf:
* the simple & elegant dark grey theme and wallpaper
* the cool pipe-menus -- seems they put quite a bit work into those
* shortcut keys shown on the background by default, but include a version sans shortcut keys for once the user knows them

I think it'd also be important to include at least a menu item or desktop icon that launches abinstall. #! had Install options when booting the ISO, but not once you booted the Live Session (at least not in the menus).


Then maybe also offer an alternative OpenRC version.


OR, while it would be quite a different project probably, you could create an installer script à la AUI, with the obviously #!-esque options as default, but also give users some choices, e.g. OpenRC or systemd, enable AUR via yaourt, etc.

Could be quicker to update, as you'd be updating a script instead of spinning new ISOs. Worth a thought, I think.


EDIT: how could I have forgotten about the #! Post-Install script? That was also awesome. smile

Last edited by joshg253 (2017-03-29 14:36:12)

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#3 2017-03-30 12:27:22

Mr Green
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Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

Keybinds are in openbox menu, can easily add them back into conky. Installer used to be part of main menu but it was a pain to remove it post install. Again something I could look at for summer release. We did have packer install script (post install) live it is not something I would add as you need base-devel packages.

A fully updateable (if that is the word!) could be done by installing to usb device then simply updating it to have the latest and greatest packages on the go.


Comments, suggestions, donations please feel free to contact me mrgreen(at)archbang(dot)org Artix information https://artix-linux.github.io/migrate/

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#4 2017-03-31 04:07:14

seventh
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Registered: 2017-02-07
Posts: 68

Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

Ive always found reflector something i install soon after installation, is there a way to make it a part of the iso? Or is it already there, sorry im working from another distro. Been distro hopping.

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Reflector

Last edited by seventh (2017-03-31 04:08:08)

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#5 2017-03-31 07:11:18

Mr Green
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Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

Installer added to main menu for next release, keybinds will return in conky


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#6 2017-03-31 10:14:07

joshg253
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Posts: 9
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Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

Mr Green wrote:

Installer added to main menu for next release, keybinds will return in conky

Nice work.

Did you find a way to remove the installer link from the installed OS?

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#7 2017-03-31 12:13:36

Mr Green
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Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

Yes a simple sed line should work, will of course test before release. Adding back in onscreen keyboard shortcuts (conky)


Comments, suggestions, donations please feel free to contact me mrgreen(at)archbang(dot)org Artix information https://artix-linux.github.io/migrate/

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#8 2017-04-01 04:42:38

Mr Green
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Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

Reflector needs python, something we do not ship live. However subject to a network connection do not see why you could not load it live.... need to find or create packer script (aur tools) post install.


Comments, suggestions, donations please feel free to contact me mrgreen(at)archbang(dot)org Artix information https://artix-linux.github.io/migrate/

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#9 2017-04-01 12:53:09

pablokal
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Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

* the simple & elegant dark grey theme and wallpaper
* the cool pipe-menus -- seems they put quite a bit work into those

We're not so much interested in looks as the former Crunchbang community. I guess.
But why don't  you write a howto to see what we are missing and maybe that will convince Mr Green to add this  in a later release.


Getting your questions answered here at ArchBang Forums
Please! Always give hardware info, if there is a chance that 's relevant: #lspci -vnn
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#10 2017-04-01 13:45:05

Mr Green
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Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

Downloaded crunch++ see what all the fuss is about, packer install will be added to next release....


Comments, suggestions, donations please feel free to contact me mrgreen(at)archbang(dot)org Artix information https://artix-linux.github.io/migrate/

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#11 2017-04-01 19:16:48

joshg253
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From: Bellevue, WA
Registered: 2017-03-29
Posts: 9
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Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

pablokal wrote:

* the simple & elegant dark grey theme and wallpaper
* the cool pipe-menus -- seems they put quite a bit work into those

We're not so much interested in looks as the former Crunchbang community. I guess.
But why don't  you write a howto to see what we are missing and maybe that will convince Mr Green to add this  in a later release.

I was just saying, based upon the name "Archbang" I would think it'd be Crunchbang but with an Arch backbone instead of Debian. Isn't that what this project was initially?

I realize I've only been lurking for some unknown time interval, but Mr. Green asked what people wanted to see, and that's what I thought I'd see, so that's what I want to see.

I could write something more like a list of software & customizations that made Crunchbang unique, but if I could actually write a "howto make Crunchbang on Arch" I could also probably just make it myself. smile

If that is indeed the goal of this project, I can definitely help figure out what's missing to make it more like Crunchbang was.

Otherwise, if the goal is something else, then I'll stop thinking of it as an Arch-based Crunchbang clone and just take it as it is.


Mr Green wrote:

Downloaded crunch++ see what all the fuss is about, packer install will be added to next release....

Don't forget BunsenLabs, or that other one I forgot. tongue
I can't tell the difference between cbpp & bl and have no idea which one to choose if you wanted a continued Debian-based Crunchbang. big_smile

EDIT: The third CB continuation is Monara, and doesn't have the look or feel of Crunchbang.

Last edited by joshg253 (2017-04-01 19:44:10)

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#12 2017-04-02 00:09:00

Mr Green
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Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

It has always been a trade off when building iso to keep it within 700mbs. Over the years the iso has grown from around 450 to now 600mbs+. Perfectly aware that with usb drive/sticks there is no real limit but it does take time to build iso and upload it, reducing this helps me quite a bit. With i686 being dropped by Arch my work is halved wink.

Back on topic....

We can make ArchBang feel more like Crunchbang, it was more the fact that we are based on openbox rather than bigger desktops like xfarce! or mate.

Post-install script does sound like a good idea, what to include?

Tried so hard not to do much hand holding with users, they do need to learn Arch to get the best from it.

Monara never heard of it


Comments, suggestions, donations please feel free to contact me mrgreen(at)archbang(dot)org Artix information https://artix-linux.github.io/migrate/

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#13 2017-04-02 01:38:31

joshg253
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From: Bellevue, WA
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Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

Haha, true!


Ok, so just an Arch-based distro featuring Openbox, not necessarily an Arch-based clone of CrunchBang.

Post-Install: optionally choose browser, office suite. Perhaps different kernels? (Trying to remember what was in the #! one)
Definitely minimal initial install, optionally bloat it up with the Post-Install Script™.


CrunchBang-Monara is just another of the successors listed on the Wikipedia article for CrunchBang. Main font reminds me of Comic Sans...

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#14 2017-04-02 03:12:42

Mr Green
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Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

Uploading new 'rc' version with of course updated packages, installer from main menu, packer install script and of course key shortcuts in conky wink


Comments, suggestions, donations please feel free to contact me mrgreen(at)archbang(dot)org Artix information https://artix-linux.github.io/migrate/

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#15 2017-04-02 03:34:31

seventh
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Registered: 2017-02-07
Posts: 68

Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

Mr Green wrote:

Reflector needs python, something we do not ship live. However subject to a network connection do not see why you could not load it live.... need to find or create packer script (aur tools) post install.

You are right there and the way you set up the mirrors live works just the same. Little bit more of an advantage using reflector when the system is fully setup, i see improvements in speed having say 12 mirrors to choose from that are the closest to me. Definetly a userland option.

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#16 2017-04-02 03:53:59

Mr Green
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Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

Well it something that could certainly be added to post-install script, did notice that !# does include things like libreoffice, vlc etc...

This is what our installer was based on (well most of it!), the lilo script is kind of the way forward post install

https://github.com/helmuthdu/aui


Comments, suggestions, donations please feel free to contact me mrgreen(at)archbang(dot)org Artix information https://artix-linux.github.io/migrate/

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#17 2017-04-02 13:34:38

joshg253
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From: Bellevue, WA
Registered: 2017-03-29
Posts: 9
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Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

Grabbed the ISO and booted it in VirtualBox, but was unable to successfully install due to some hiccups with the Bootloader installation -- I've run out of time right now to experiment further or provide more info, so more later on that perhaps. :\


Things I think should be added to default installation (or in Post-Install Script):
* nitrogen -- wallpaper chooser GUI
* obconf and lxappearance-obconf -- appearance-related settings GUI
* conky-manager -- Conky profiles selection/preview GUI

Optionally installed via Post-Install Script (fresh-squeezed from the tubes, not on the ISO):
* choice of web browser
* choice of terminal emulator
* pack of themes from the old CB releases -- they had a nice selection, wonder if we can just tar the dir, remove the already installed ones, and use that archive in the script?
* enable AUR, install e.g. yaourt
* firewall, ssh, ssl
* dev tools, git, etc.
* choice of Office suite?
* choice of kernel?


Some package version info:

	#!9	#!10		#!11		ab0417
conky	1.6.1	1.8.0		1.9.0		1.10.6_pre
openbox	3.4.7.2	3.5.0		3.5.0		3.6.1
tint2	0.7-svn	0.11-svn	0.11-svn	0.14.1

Could be useful for e.g. determining whether the old Themes & such would even work nowadays. Let me know if this is helpful, I have ISOs for #!v9-11 sitting here I can interrogate further. big_smile

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#18 2017-04-03 00:47:54

Mr Green
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Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

Obconf and lxappearance are included live, just not part of main menu (maybe need a sub menu for them!). Not sure if I want to add nitrogen live, it drags in another gui toolkit and does not seem to make much sense live. Post install perhaps? wink ... not heard of conky-manager again it is worth loading live?

Post-install things you have posted maybe part of lilo script....

Edit Added Settings menu with Obconf and Lxappearance


Comments, suggestions, donations please feel free to contact me mrgreen(at)archbang(dot)org Artix information https://artix-linux.github.io/migrate/

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#19 2017-04-03 08:43:17

joshg253
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From: Bellevue, WA
Registered: 2017-03-29
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Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

Hidden treasures! big_smile

I meant those items should be installed by default, not necessarily in the Live Session.

Really, unless you set up persistence on a USB with the LiveCD, how much customization are you gonna do?

So I agree on not having Nitrogen in Live then. Probably skip conky-manager in Live as well, for similar reasons.

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#20 2017-04-03 12:53:59

Mr Green
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Registered: 2010-11-07
Posts: 6,859

Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

Might look at a way of adding tint2conf to menu (as it's installed anyway). In a similar light things like obkey and obmenu could be added. Without checking I do not think #! has a dynamic menu.

From my point of view things that add weight but have no real benefit live are what I try to avoid, Firefox is a case in point. It requires both gtk2 and gtk3 toolkits. If I could run say gtk3 only I could lose around 50mbs from iso. This ultimately means more gui goodness wink


Comments, suggestions, donations please feel free to contact me mrgreen(at)archbang(dot)org Artix information https://artix-linux.github.io/migrate/

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#21 2017-04-07 23:05:59

joshg253
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From: Bellevue, WA
Registered: 2017-03-29
Posts: 9
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Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

(sorry, started a new job this week, been busy)

Yes, tint2config would be good too.

Agree on preventing bloat, for the most part. Firefox is my browser of choice, but I wonder if something like QupZilla (still Qt required probably) instead of FF/Chrome in the Live would be better, and just allow selection of browser in the Post-Install Script.

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#22 2017-04-08 00:58:28

Mr Green
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Posts: 6,859

Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

Tint2conf added.

Usually switch to netsurf as a lighter browser for rc or beta builds. Heavy apps include firefox, grub, gparted and now gvfs...

Must start work on Openrc version....


Comments, suggestions, donations please feel free to contact me mrgreen(at)archbang(dot)org Artix information https://artix-linux.github.io/migrate/

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#23 2017-04-08 07:37:52

seventh
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Registered: 2017-02-07
Posts: 68

Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

I personally think a web browser should be an optional addition or user addition, what would be the negatives on that idea?

In the openbox menu you could link popular web browser choices that give the option to install via pacman, not sure how that would be done but ive seen it before within openbox somewhere i cant recollect at the moment.

That could cut down on iso size somewhat.

Last edited by seventh (2017-04-08 07:48:34)

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#24 2017-04-08 11:46:33

pablokal
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From: Nijmegen, Holland
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Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

The negative is that a live cd is mostly used to browse the internet.


Getting your questions answered here at ArchBang Forums
Please! Always give hardware info, if there is a chance that 's relevant: #lspci -vnn
On Arch(bang) and Openbox: http://stillstup.blogspot.com/

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#25 2017-04-08 15:12:33

joshg253
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From: Bellevue, WA
Registered: 2017-03-29
Posts: 9
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Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

pablokal wrote:

The negative is that a live cd is mostly used to browse the internet.

Yeah, that and try out a distro before you commit it to disk. smile

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#26 2017-04-08 18:44:23

seventh
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Registered: 2017-02-07
Posts: 68

Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

pablokal wrote:

The negative is that a live cd is mostly used to browse the internet.

I was thinking that the user could install themselves their choice of web browser live. Probably not the done thing though and maybe not possible live also.

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#27 2017-04-09 00:53:28

Mr Green
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Posts: 6,859

Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

Generally we figure that a user either may not have an internet connection or cannot set up wifi for whatever reason. A user can at least set up a disc and install a system without any network connection. This has always been how ArchBang installer works. We do not rely on a network connection to install.

That said Archlinux is very much a network based distribution, simply to keep system bleeding edge and allow a user to install packages.

Shipping with a smaller browser live such as netsurf does save quite a bit of space.

My only other option would be a 'light' version that simply had a desktop with installer  and some means of installing 'missing' packages live...

pacman -Syyu firefox --noconfirm

Maybe from a menu driven script or via openbox menu...


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#28 2017-04-09 12:25:52

joshg253
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From: Bellevue, WA
Registered: 2017-03-29
Posts: 9
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Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

Anyone else having trouble with the Bootloader setup during installation?

In VirtualBox (1 SATA controller with 1 Optical + 1 Disk), I've tried Grub2 Automatic, Syslinux [MBR] Automatic, and Syslinux [Partition] Automatic; none of which will boot after rebooting. I have some screenshots with more info that I can share here or in another thread or offline, etc.


The rest seems to go through fine, although if you tell it to go through multiple steps and then e.g. mistype the new root password the second time, it'll just show an error message and continue to the next step.

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#29 2017-04-09 13:06:40

Mr Green
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Registered: 2010-11-07
Posts: 6,859

Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

With virtualbox you do need guest modules, which include drivers for X  and it worked fine.

Live iso works without any issues.


Comments, suggestions, donations please feel free to contact me mrgreen(at)archbang(dot)org Artix information https://artix-linux.github.io/migrate/

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#30 2017-04-16 07:46:33

seventh
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Registered: 2017-02-07
Posts: 68

Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

How is progress mr green. Been very quiet of late. Hope you are well.

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#31 2017-04-16 12:55:05

Mr Green
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Registered: 2010-11-07
Posts: 6,859

Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

Am on vacation at the moment, last thing I did before leaving was set up a 50gb partition for Openrc build. Checked your screenshot and might alter keyboard shortcuts to something in line with yours.

Thinking of a way to add gparted to main menu live...


Comments, suggestions, donations please feel free to contact me mrgreen(at)archbang(dot)org Artix information https://artix-linux.github.io/migrate/

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#32 2017-04-17 06:52:46

seventh
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Registered: 2017-02-07
Posts: 68

Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

Mr Green wrote:

Am on vacation at the moment, last thing I did before leaving was set up a 50gb partition for Openrc build. Checked your screenshot and might alter keyboard shortcuts to something in line with yours.

Thinking of a way to add gparted to main menu live...

Shortcuts thanks to bunsenlabs distro, ive rearranged the shortcuts to my liking for programs and such.

gparted is good but i much prefer fdisk / gdisk these days, but i suppose those tools come with experience and gparted is good for the beginner.

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#33 2017-04-28 23:40:48

Mr Green
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Posts: 6,859

Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

ArchBang is openbox based has all the applications from the old days and now we have OpenRC.

My change to Netsurf was more about reducing ISO size..

If change anything it is to go Openrc only in the near future


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#34 2017-05-13 08:16:12

dr.mabuse
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Registered: 2017-05-13
Posts: 1

Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

Hi,
I just registered to support the ideas joshg253 braught up for the next release. I am a Crunchbang user since several years now - and after CB based on Wheezy would be the last one I found Archbang very interesting - since its a rolling release. But it didn't feel like beeing as ready for desktop usage like CB. Several years ago, I was fine with setting up the looks and configure everything about the window manaher myself. But today I dont want to do that like for hours anymore. I and I guess many others expect a style which is pleasant to the eye and flexible for adjustment. CB did that - and it additionally had those install script, although I didnt need them really. More importantly tools like obconf or lxappaerance, arandr, tint, dmenu, choosing a wallpaper e.g. this very basic stuff is included in the right klick menu and very fast and easy to reach as a newcomer. So thats user friedly although its minimalistic. It offers you customisation of your desktop to something more suitable to your workflow.

I still use Wheezy @ work. And Bunsenlabs (Jessie) I have on my systems @home. Bunsenlabs is the successor of CB. This cb++ leader just migrated the CB distro-specific packages to jessie. Bunsenlabs actually is moving forward. It took the CB packages , migrated and improves them continuously based on community requests. So thats what you call a living disto and thats the future branch of CB.

But Debian in general lacks up to date software. This is why I would very much like to see Archbang to get a little more like Bunsenlabs in regard to having a recognizable desktop theme + customisation options at hand to make openbox more or less swift from a solid basic install to your own.

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#35 2017-05-13 11:15:28

Mr Green
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Registered: 2010-11-07
Posts: 6,859

Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

Adding features adds to iso size. Things like nitrogen which needs its own gui toolkit just does not seem worth the effort live. Post install anything needed are easily installed. Had asked for permission to use arch anywhere scripts to achieve this, but as yet I have head nothing from developer.


Comments, suggestions, donations please feel free to contact me mrgreen(at)archbang(dot)org Artix information https://artix-linux.github.io/migrate/

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#36 2017-05-16 08:56:19

henchman24
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Registered: 2017-01-24
Posts: 4

Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

Would love an openrc version, I am waiting for 4.11 to be in the iso's that way I do not have to build the kernels.  They support a lot of my hardware better.

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#37 2017-05-18 08:03:36

carlob
Member
Registered: 2017-05-18
Posts: 1

Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

Please don't drop i686 version with openRC. There are plenty of 32 bit old PCs that ask for it.
If you need help to maintain it, maybe there will be someone so kind to help.

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#38 2017-05-18 13:26:39

Mr Green
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Registered: 2010-11-07
Posts: 6,859

Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

Not a question of dropping i686, simply that arch will no longer support it. I would seriously look at Alpine Linux Openrc and 32 bit yummy!


Comments, suggestions, donations please feel free to contact me mrgreen(at)archbang(dot)org Artix information https://artix-linux.github.io/migrate/

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#39 2017-05-24 16:51:53

mips
Member
Registered: 2015-07-04
Posts: 46

Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

Mr Green wrote:

I would seriously look at Alpine Linux Openrc and 32 bit yummy!

I tried it before but gave up due to time constraints. Other concerns are sparse documentation/wiki, quite a few packages I use are not in the repos, lack of support in the forum/irc (the chances of getting a response there are slim).

I just downloaded the latest standard iso and will give it a shot again but I suspect I'm in for a lot of PT. Either way I'll have to find an alternative distro for this laptop before arch drops i686.

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#40 2017-05-25 10:03:12

Mr Green
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Registered: 2010-11-07
Posts: 6,859

Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

Its a shame because it is so easy to install and once you switch to 'edge' you get a very update system.... not sure what packages you are needing. Certainly something I am really looking at at the moment.

On Virtualbox I have done three installs honing each system as I learn..


Comments, suggestions, donations please feel free to contact me mrgreen(at)archbang(dot)org Artix information https://artix-linux.github.io/migrate/

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#41 2017-05-25 14:58:01

mips
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Registered: 2015-07-04
Posts: 46

Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

Mr Green wrote:

...not sure what packages you are needing.

pinta, gcolor2, transmission-gtk, chromium, opera for starters.

I'm gonna give it a go over the weekend or next week some time though.

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