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#1 2015-02-07 02:21:08

Mr Green
Administrator
Registered: 2010-11-07
Posts: 6,920

News

I am in working on a systemd free version of archbang (again!). So far have not much to show for my efforts. Problems I face are systemd (of course). Mdev well at least for me does not work with X, xorg is built with udev so it simply does not allow keyboard or mouse to work.

Am now thinking of using eudev instead.

My concerns are that with a pseudo arch system maintaining it would be more difficult, more so for new users. Upgrade path would be difficult.

VoidBang anyone?


Comments, suggestions please feel free to contact me mrgreen(at)archbang(dot)org

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#2 2015-02-07 05:02:11

pablokal
Administrator
From: Nijmegen, Holland
Registered: 2010-10-12
Posts: 3,634
Website

Re: News

Well, I'll stick to my opinion which i might not have stated clear enough.
I think to create a systemd free arch you better start where arch was four years ago regarding its simpleness. But even then with all the systemd dependent packages you are still nowhere.
You will have to start a whole new distro I think, like Entropy linux .
I haven't tried artoo new distro and I'm not going to for personal reasons.

But indeed void linux is great and doesn't have to be altered except that more packages would be great.
So supporting Void by making voidbang popular and give it a place here or on its own would be my preference. But it is up to you to decide of it is too much work or not. And if you find Juans reluctancy to share Void and lack of appreciation for what you are doing and have done (which I find very disappointing) acceptable.


Getting your questions answered here at ArchBang Forums
Please! Always give hardware info, if there is a chance that 's relevant: #lspci -vnn
On Arch(bang) and Openbox: http://stillstup.blogspot.com/

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#3 2015-02-07 05:49:03

Mr Green
Administrator
Registered: 2010-11-07
Posts: 6,920

Re: News

I do not really care what void thinks, we had the same resentment from arch linux. Voidbang is possible and we could have all what we have in ArchBang currently with runit running out of the box.

I can run a sub forum for V! until we have something stable..

Do need input from team before I go full on into development, be mindful it will take a little time to rewrite installer to suit,


Comments, suggestions please feel free to contact me mrgreen(at)archbang(dot)org

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#4 2015-02-07 06:06:49

pablokal
Administrator
From: Nijmegen, Holland
Registered: 2010-10-12
Posts: 3,634
Website

Re: News

Great, go for it and take your time!! This is my ideal scenario.
And I'll support where I can. Mail me when it takes too much time for me answer.


Getting your questions answered here at ArchBang Forums
Please! Always give hardware info, if there is a chance that 's relevant: #lspci -vnn
On Arch(bang) and Openbox: http://stillstup.blogspot.com/

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#5 2015-02-07 08:08:54

oliver
Administrator
Registered: 2010-11-04
Posts: 2,209

Re: News

Void is very nice... and I would say to do whatever inspires you.

One thing that puts me off Void is the lack of a real forum for support so you might get a lot of users coming here instead.  This could upset the Void devs so as long as it's clear that it's a derivative I can't see it being a major problem

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#6 2015-02-07 08:51:36

Mr Green
Administrator
Registered: 2010-11-07
Posts: 6,920

Re: News

Think sub forum would be a start before a full blown forum/site, we have enough to do here without watching two sites :-)

just thought I blew out void patition so will have to install it again first.....

@oliver lets face it we are used to upsetting devs.....


Comments, suggestions please feel free to contact me mrgreen(at)archbang(dot)org

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#7 2015-02-07 10:47:04

moravec
Member
From: near volcano, pacific NW, USA
Registered: 2010-10-07
Posts: 114
Website

Re: News

I think void! and a sub forum are great ideas.


ex Distro Junkie, Archbang addict

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#8 2015-02-07 14:30:59

Mr Green
Administrator
Registered: 2010-11-07
Posts: 6,920

Re: News

Have updated my void install and set up mklive script, now found it breaks while trying too install X ;(


Comments, suggestions please feel free to contact me mrgreen(at)archbang(dot)org

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#9 2015-02-07 15:57:44

Lineaxe
Member
Registered: 2015-02-07
Posts: 29

Re: News

How about GentooBang? hehe...
Check out http://paludis.exherbo.org/overview/features.html
Then no python is required, just the package manager.

I'm researching using ebuilds for a possible general build system for other Linux distros, and it would certainly be an interesting endeavor, where at the end, you will truly have learned and created a lot.
As the Arch-based way seems to just boil down to changing rusty configurations, and rusty packages, and their rusty dependencies...

Whilst if we would work on a general build system for any distro, with a binary and ebuild-patches repo, for a distro purely using this build system, it would have quite a bit more impact.

So I'm merely saying: let's take the path where we can learn the most, and create something truly different.
Though I'm not part of this project, and may never be, this is what I'm working on.
With a minimalistic C++-based package manager, using scripts only for fetching packages and other basic operations. As dependency-graphs requires a real programming language to resolve and handle properly.

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#10 2015-02-07 16:43:32

throdon
Member
Registered: 2011-06-24
Posts: 105

Re: News

I think the sabayon minimal install uses fluxbox, is based on gentoo and sabayon has a iso builder called molecule. All you would need to do is add openbox and what ever else you want. Its huge though.

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#11 2015-02-07 17:49:51

moravec
Member
From: near volcano, pacific NW, USA
Registered: 2010-10-07
Posts: 114
Website

Re: News

I have installed several of the void isos, today (mate and xfce), on virtualbox and they all broke after upgrading.  My original void installation was i3 and it was also screwed up after the latest upgrade.  I thought it was something I was doing wrong since I didn't see anything on the void "forum".


ex Distro Junkie, Archbang addict

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#12 2015-02-07 19:35:40

ManInTheBox
Member
Registered: 2015-02-03
Posts: 23

Re: News

what is the downside to have systemd installed? i have it on my system things seem ok.  ive read that many are upset with it but is it really that bad?

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#13 2015-02-07 22:49:14

ArchVortex
Retired
From: Ts’elxweyeqw, Canada
Registered: 2011-04-01
Posts: 1,465

Re: News

ManInTheBox wrote:

what is the downside to have systemd installed? i have it on my system things seem ok.  ive read that many are upset with it but is it really that bad?

Many of us prefer choice and control over our whole GNU/Linux systems. Systemd seems to be taking over the whole system (hence the "system" in its name), absorbing integral parts of the system, calling the absorbed packages and functions deprecated when they're not and limiting choices of the user. For Windows and Mac converts to Linux, this is no problem because they're used to this kind of system on their computers and don't care too much or see what the big deal is. For others like me, I'm used to controlling my whole system, being able to choose how my system is built and run. This is why I run Gentoo, Funtoo, Crux and Slackware. Systemd takes away my choices. It is Windowsizing Linux. Some users, especially a lot of the newer users don't care. A bunch of us old time users vehemently reject systemd. If systemd had remained a choice and not a forced option I would not feel the way I do. I just wouldn't choose it.  I'm looking forward to testing Daniel Robbin's new OpenRC that is going to surpass systemd as init for performance when it's ready. 

Back on topic, Mr G, I run eudev on Crux, Gentoo and Funtoo and have no problems. I built an LFS and had problems with mdev but not with eudev. Maybe something like the Crux installation might be the way to go but with a kernel binary instead of compiling the provided source during the installation process to shorten the installation time. It's too bad it wouldn't be easy to do a minimal systemd less base Arch install and then add a small Openbox plus minimum number of packages as a tarball or snapshot. Or would it? Sorry, just thinking out loud.


You have the capacity to learn from mistakes. You'll learn a lot today.
FP:E5F8 7DBA 8128 9ACB 75F7 7279 BE34 AB66 76D9 16DE
KEY ID:76D916DE
Currently running ArchBang / LFS / OpenSUSE Tumbleweed

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#14 2015-02-07 23:06:26

ArchVortex
Retired
From: Ts’elxweyeqw, Canada
Registered: 2011-04-01
Posts: 1,465

Re: News

throdon wrote:

I think the sabayon minimal install uses fluxbox, is based on gentoo and sabayon has a iso builder called molecule. All you would need to do is add openbox and what ever else you want. Its huge though.

I used to use this a few years ago ( before Fabio dumped i686, probably causing popularity drop for Sabayon) to skip the bloat in Sabayon . You had to have an ethernet connection because there were no network management packages included. No ethernet = no installation progress. Kind of like Antergos. No ethernet or wifi = no installation. Being able to do connectionless installations is a big plus for ArchBang and how Mr Green can do installs on the bus wink


You have the capacity to learn from mistakes. You'll learn a lot today.
FP:E5F8 7DBA 8128 9ACB 75F7 7279 BE34 AB66 76D9 16DE
KEY ID:76D916DE
Currently running ArchBang / LFS / OpenSUSE Tumbleweed

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#15 2015-02-08 01:23:23

Mr Green
Administrator
Registered: 2010-11-07
Posts: 6,920

Re: News

I should just say the bus quote is from Oliver wink

Lets just see if I can make voidbang work first before we all get too excited


Comments, suggestions please feel free to contact me mrgreen(at)archbang(dot)org

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