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#1 2014-05-16 04:07:31

pablokal
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From: Nijmegen, Holland
Registered: 2010-10-12
Posts: 3,633
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Firefox giving in to DRM

From a mail of the FSF:

We want to alert you to new developments that unfortunately require more action. Yesterday, Mozilla announced that it is adopting DRM in its Firefox web browser. Please read and share our statement condemning this decision, and write to Mozilla CTO Andreas Gal letting him know you oppose DRM.

Thanks for all you do,

John, Libby, William, and the rest of the DRM Elimination Crew
FSF condemns partnership between Mozilla and Adobe to support Digital Restrictions Management

In response to Mozilla's announcement that it is adopting DRM in its Firefox Web browser, Free Software Foundation executive director John Sullivan made the following statement:

"Only a week after the International Day Against DRM, Mozilla has announced that it will partner with proprietary software company Adobe to implement support for Web-based Digital Restrictions Management (DRM) in its Firefox browser, using Encrypted Media Extensions (EME).

The Free Software Foundation is deeply disappointed in Mozilla's announcement. The decision compromises important principles in order to alleviate misguided fears about loss of browser marketshare. It allies Mozilla with a company hostile to the free software movement and to Mozilla's own fundamental ideals.

Although Mozilla will not directly ship Adobe's proprietary DRM plugin, it will, as an official feature, encourage Firefox users to install the plugin from Adobe when presented with media that requests DRM. We agree with Cory Doctorow that there is no meaningful distinction between 'installing DRM' and 'installing code that installs DRM.'

We recognize that Mozilla is doing this reluctantly, and we trust these words coming from Mozilla much more than we do when they come from Microsoft or Amazon. At the same time, nearly everyone who implements DRM says they are forced to do it, and this lack of accountability is how the practice sustains itself. Mozilla's announcement today unfortunately puts it -- in this regard -- in the same category as its proprietary competitors.

Unlike those proprietary competitors, Mozilla is going to great lengths to reduce some of the specific harms of DRM by attempting to 'sandbox' the plugin. But this approach cannot solve the fundamental ethical problems with proprietary software, or the issues that inevitably arise when proprietary software is installed on a user's computer.

In the announcement, Mitchell Baker asserts that Mozilla's hands were tied. But she then goes on to actively praise Adobe's "value" and suggests that there is some kind of necessary balance between DRM and user freedom.

There is nothing necessary about DRM, and to hear Mozilla praising Adobe -- the company who has been and continues to be a vicious opponent of the free software movement and the free Web -- is shocking. With this partnership in place, we worry about Mozilla's ability and willingness to criticize Adobe's practices going forward.

We understand that Mozilla is afraid of losing users. Cory Doctorow points out that they have produced no evidence to substantiate this fear or made any effort to study the situation. More importantly, popularity is not an end in itself. This is especially true for the Mozilla Foundation, a nonprofit with an ethical mission. In the past, Mozilla has distinguished itself and achieved success by protecting the freedom of its users and explaining the importance of that freedom: including publishing Firefox's source code, allowing others to make modifications to it, and sticking to Web standards in the face of attempts to impose proprietary extensions.

Today's decision turns that calculus on its head, devoting Mozilla resources to delivering users to Adobe and hostile media distributors. In the process, Firefox is losing the identity which set it apart from its proprietary competitors -- Internet Explorer and Chrome -- both of which are implementing EME in an even worse fashion.

Undoubtedly, some number of users just want restricted media like Netflix to work in Firefox, and they will be upset if it doesn't. This is unsurprising, since the majority of the world is not yet familiar with the ethical issues surrounding proprietary software. This debate was, and is, a high-profile opportunity to introduce these concepts to users and ask them to stand together in some tough decisions.

To see Mozilla compromise without making any public effort to rally users against this supposed "forced choice" is doubly disappointing. They should reverse this decision. But whether they do or do not, we call on them to join us by devoting as many of their extensive resources to permanently eliminating DRM as they are now devoting to supporting it. The FSF will have more to say and do on this in the coming days. For now, users who are concerned about this issue should:

    Write to Mozilla CTO Andreas Gal and let him know that you oppose DRM. Mozilla made this decision in a misguided appeal to its userbase; it needs to hear in clear and reasoned terms from the users who feel this as a betrayal. Ask Mozilla what it is going to do to actually solve the DRM problem that has created this false forced choice.    Email address agal  a t mozilla.com

    Join our effort to stop EME approval at the W3C. While today's announcement makes it even more obvious that W3C rejection of EME will not stop its implementation, it also makes it clear that W3C can fearlessly reject EME to send a message that DRM is not a part of the vision of a free Web. https://defectivebydesign.org/no-drm-in-html5

    Use a version of Firefox without the EME code: Since its source code is available under a license allowing anyone to modify and redistribute it under a different name, we expect versions without EME to be made available, and you should use those instead. We will list them in the Free Software Directory.

References

    What is DRM?
    https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2014/05/1 … ing-users/
    https://hacks.mozilla.org/2014/05/recon … d-w3c-eme/
    https://defectivebydesign.org/dbd-condemns-drm-in-html
    https://fsf.org/news/coalition-against-drm-in-html
    https://defectivebydesign.org/oscar-awa … e-hollyweb


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#2 2014-05-16 07:20:41

scjet
Member
From: Canada
Registered: 2010-12-01
Posts: 1,468

Re: Firefox giving in to DRM

sheesh, so whatever happened to html5. ..., replacing "hostile" adobe/DRM crap ?

Oh ya, "Sir Timothy John "Tim" Berners-Lee" - father of the "WWW",  has also made DRM an official aspect of HTML5.
Thanks for nothing, Sir Shite.  sad

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/201310 … king.shtml
http://arstechnica.com/information-tech … n-firefox/

I never thought Mozilla/Firefox would do this.

Last edited by scjet (2014-05-16 07:45:17)

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#3 2014-05-16 07:48:31

pablokal
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From: Nijmegen, Holland
Registered: 2010-10-12
Posts: 3,633
Website

Re: Firefox giving in to DRM

Thanks for the links! Good article on TechDirt.


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#4 2014-05-16 08:03:14

scjet
Member
From: Canada
Registered: 2010-12-01
Posts: 1,468

Re: Firefox giving in to DRM

pablokal wrote:

Thanks for the links! Good article on TechDirt.

ya, and thanks for your initial "Firefox ...DRM" post.

On a similar note, I was laughing over this one, about Hollywood, ...
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/201310 … self.shtml
wink

Last edited by scjet (2014-05-16 08:03:50)

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#5 2014-05-16 09:22:54

artoo
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Registered: 2013-02-16
Posts: 332
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Re: Firefox giving in to DRM

Can anyone else see a pattern here?
Disgusting and hypocrite.

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#6 2014-05-16 12:13:46

pablokal
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From: Nijmegen, Holland
Registered: 2010-10-12
Posts: 3,633
Website

Re: Firefox giving in to DRM

"People put their mouth, where their money is" is the pattern I see.
In Dutch you have a proverb: : "Whose bread  one eats, whose word one speaks."


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#7 2014-05-17 05:29:29

artoo
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Registered: 2013-02-16
Posts: 332
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Re: Firefox giving in to DRM

pablokal wrote:

"People put their mouth, where their money is" is the pattern I see.
In Dutch you have a proverb: : "Whose bread  one eats, whose word one speaks."

Wes' Brot ich ess, dessen Lied ich sing'. In German. smile

Right.

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#8 2014-05-18 05:45:23

harv
Member
Registered: 2012-12-04
Posts: 52

Re: Firefox giving in to DRM

Really don't understand why everyone is dumping on FF developers for this.
Seems to me they are just being realistic and taking a reasonable approach.
Sticking to your principles is fine but when doing so will probably kill your product and put you out of a job I wonder how many of you would opt for sticking to your principles.

If browser A doesn't render content the user wants but browser B does  user is not going to keep using browser A.
If browser A then loses enough market share because it doesn't do what user wants, browser A developer is out of a job.

What is FF actually doing?
They are setting up hooks in a sandbox for cdm modules but leave it to the user to decide to install said modules.

What are the alternatives?
1) Stick to principles and not deliver acceptable user experience thereby suffering market loss and becoming marginalised if not extinct.

2) Do like I expect Chrome and IE will do and pre-install every bit of drm garbage they can so everything works "out of the box".

Personally, as a user I would choose the FF way over others even if does mean an extra step or two.

Just my opinion and yes I do know exactly what that is worth.

harv

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#9 2014-05-18 06:15:14

pablokal
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From: Nijmegen, Holland
Registered: 2010-10-12
Posts: 3,633
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Re: Firefox giving in to DRM

Of course I will keep on using Firefox, but  you ignore the power Firefox has as a much used browser. If it won't support a closed internet, it will make the changes of keeping internet more open greater. By giving in to user- unfriendly standards they are supporting the loss of possibilities of the users now.
It is one way of the other, you can't fight the beast and support it at the same time.


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#10 2014-05-18 09:11:47

harv
Member
Registered: 2012-12-04
Posts: 52

Re: Firefox giving in to DRM

pablokal wrote:

you ignore the power Firefox has as a much used browser.

No, I don't ignore it, I just think you and others over-estimate it.
I haven't paid attention in a while but last I remember FF and Chrome were in a dead heat not far behind IE.
That is a very precarious balance. Wouldn't take much to swing pendulum in favor of one or the other quickly.
And as we all know, users are fickle.

If the users don't want user-unfriendly standards then the users are the ones that should do something about it.
They have the tools. They just need to use them.
Corporations only really pay attention to one thing- the bottom line- so that is where you have to hit them to get their attention.
Enough people boycott the purveyors of user-unfriendly crap they'll get the message.

Some might say "well, it hasn't worked yet" but that is mainly because people are either too apathetic or ignorant of the issue to band together and do anything about it.
The LGBT community is a perfect example of what I'm talking about.
They are a relatively small but extremely vocal group that made corporations and even governments make quick u-turns on policy decisions.
Get the users/consumers to speak up and/or walk with their wallets and things will change.

harv

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#11 2014-05-19 07:47:30

scjet
Member
From: Canada
Registered: 2010-12-01
Posts: 1,468

Re: Firefox giving in to DRM

harv wrote:

Some might say "well, it hasn't worked yet" but that is mainly because people are either too apathetic or ignorant of the issue to band together and do anything about it.

harv

I understand you, but it's not apathy or ignorance, however you're right, it is just plain "money talks and people walk / the bottom-line".
Pitting gigantic predatory corps like ibm, google, microsoft, apple, adobe, ..., against the opensource/free community is HARDLY a fair fight.
Did you honestly think Adobe would ever care, or listen to any of those petitions?
And yet it is those very same corps who never, ever really give back to the Community. Who's the real pirates ?

Do you think those few linux development jobs is biting into their profits? -heck no, those corps are making money hand over fist, and yet they still greedily refuse to give anything back into the Community. -thay have NO other nature except monopolistic capitalism, they're like a giant hoarding beetle. -it's what drives them, and WE are their diet.
Most, if not all, of the major developemnts of our Internet came from the younger minds in our Universities,..., worldwide, and NOT these present Corporate fatcats.

But the same few linux developers are happy to have a decent salary, and in this horrible world-economy, who can blame them?,  I would honestly do the same. Although I'm contactidory here, I agree with you on that, out of necessity.

However, DRM, and many other similar evils (ala Secure-boot, ...), can/will be implemented at all levels of computer-design. It's been happening for awhile. Today it's a DRM'd FF, tomorrow it'll be this or that, where does it all end, where do we draw a line.?

What irks me the most is,
we already pay for ALL and any Hardware we buy, we already pay for extortionary ISP rates. We pay for proprietary applications. - But ALL that and more $, is still NOT enough for those greedy MF'ers.
They want to morph/control the "Public" Internet, as we know it today, into some pay-as-you-go, watch and see, they'll just keep bleeding us for all it's worth.

Maybe it's too late now, but we,-(the entire Linux/BSD Opensource , ..., communities), should have created an "Internet2", a long, long, time ago, I fear.
---------------------------------

This reminds of that Comedy Movie: "Kingpin",
...the part where a Bill Murray, with his huge entourage of Corporate backers,  barely beats a "handicapped" competitor, (Woody Harlson), and then afterwards, when the media asks Bill: "Do you not think it's UN-Fair that you beat an obviously handicapped competitor???"
Bill Murray just laughingly replies: "I don't care, I won, I won the million dollar prize, I'm fabulously rich, I don't care, (hahaha), I'm a millionaire now, (hahaha)..."
Sadly, in the end, even Woody accepts a $500,000 endorsement from "Trojan"-Condom manufacturers, simply becuase he almost won, even with his (handicapped) "Rubber"-prosthetic bowling hand. wink

Hey, I'd love to put up the link from Youtube, but unfortunately my present DRM-Free/Opensource Browser isn't allowed to display it? .
I also couldn't copy-n-paste the textual quotes from the Movie site, because well, once again, DRM is preventing me.

-lovely future eh ?
wink

Last edited by scjet (2014-05-19 08:35:40)

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#12 2014-05-19 12:59:54

artoo
Member
Registered: 2013-02-16
Posts: 332
Website

Re: Firefox giving in to DRM

scjet wrote:

Hey, I'd love to put up the link from Youtube, but unfortunately my present DRM-Free/Opensource Browser isn't allowed to display it? .
I also couldn't copy-n-paste the textual quotes from the Movie site, because well, once again, DRM is preventing me.

-lovely future eh ?
wink

Wait until a message pops up stating:

"Due to the international DRM agreement, your open source browser requires a DRM enabling plugin. Until you install this pluguin, your browser has been disabled, because it violates DRM.
A small fee of $$$ will unlock your open source browser by installing the missing plugin. You may have to install further DRM plugins, which some sites may require. Thank you for your attention."

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#13 2014-05-20 06:14:53

harv
Member
Registered: 2012-12-04
Posts: 52

Re: Firefox giving in to DRM

Hi scjet,
Nice rant.
I always enjoy your more impassioned posts.

I think we're discussing two different- but not mutually exclusive things.
you: corporations vs open source/free community
me:  corporations vs consumers

I understand you, but it's not apathy or ignorance, ...
Did you honestly think Adobe would ever care, or listen to any of those petitions?

When I'm not working my regular job- commercial hvac/industrial sheet metal- I fix computers.
Got to have an income and keep the mind busy.
It's been my experience that as long as people can hit the big blue E or whatever you want to call Chrome's icon and get the latest cat video/hollywood pap with maybe having to click on that annoying "Click here to install x to view y" pop-up they don't care what it does.
If one tries to explain why blindly clicking on link in install notification is bad and/or what drm is and why it is bad their eyes glaze over nearly immediately. They don't know and they don't care so long as they get instant gratification.
The more cynical side of me says "fine you'll continue my revenue stream with repeat business".
Hence, they exhibit both apathy and ignorance.

Of course Adobe didn't care about petition.
Petitions only work as part of a more concerted campaign.

The only way I can see to deal with drm is to find a way to educate the masses and then motivate them to take action.
How do you think MPAA/RIAA or even Apple would react if they were notified consumers weren't going to take it anymore and then 40%+ of consumers boycotted their products for even a month. No itunes downloads, no record store buys, no theater visits during a month hollywood is debuting a "blockbuster" or new Justin Bieber(yecch)album comes out.
First they would blame this, that and the other but eventually a light bulb would go on and things would change.
As this unlikely to ever happen due to consumer apathy we are stuck with drm and the rest.

As to the rest of your rant-
Welcome to the intersection of capitalism and human nature.
Humans are the apex predator on this planet and just like the rest of the beasts when facing lack of other prey will prey on their own kind.

harv

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#14 2014-05-20 13:18:32

pablokal
Administrator
From: Nijmegen, Holland
Registered: 2010-10-12
Posts: 3,633
Website

Re: Firefox giving in to DRM

With a discussion as this you really pull the shortest straw when you are not natively speaking English. But everybody thanks for their fine contributions.


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