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#1 2010-11-05 18:13:43

pablokal
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From: Nijmegen, Holland
Registered: 2010-10-12
Posts: 3,633
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Archbang, child of Arch?

Comment I posted on http://rollingrelease.com/general/2010/ … -spotlight

The importance of Archbang and Chakra are in my opinion that they deliver specific options for intermediate level gnu/linux users. What both have in common that the learning process doesn't start with an elaborate installing procedure, but with an installed OS. Archbang was my entry with Arch and gave me exactly what I was looking for: a nicely done openbox setup. After that I started learning about pacman,packer, aur, configuring mirrors, studying the beginners guide. I needed the installed OS, to find my way in Arch; maybe a bit lazy, but also probably enough self-criticism regarding my tech skills.
I managed from there. I love simpleness, the whole philosophy, the absence of bloat and commercialism.

I just recently tried Chakra; not for myself but to see if it would be an alternative for friends who might be interested.
Although it is beautiful and quite stable desktop environment, I wouldn't think of leaving the openbox wm because of the ease of using Ob, the keyboard access, pacman with its clear terminal feedback, etc. I found it shocking how easy and beautiful the install of Chakra was. Tribe is the ultimate noob installer. I think it a pity that they drift away from the Arch way, but on the other hand what they are doing is in the line of their specific concept: KDE is a gui centered and easy does-it environment with a sense of fine luxury and polish, and some people like that. Compare it to taste of cars.
So I think diversification is like in nature a sign of strength of a concept or life form, and should be welcomed and supported. The best metaphor would be calling Archbang and Chakra Arch's children. And one child may take more to their parents than the other. That's fine.


Getting your questions answered here at ArchBang Forums
Please! Always give hardware info, if there is a chance that 's relevant: #lspci -vnn
On Arch(bang) and Openbox: http://stillstup.blogspot.com/

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#2 2010-11-06 15:36:56

nullglob
Member
Registered: 2010-10-07
Posts: 31

Re: Archbang, child of Arch?

I agree 100% with this comment. Me too, I entered Arch through Archbang.
I tried Chakra, the installation was extremely easy, but when I realized that they follow another way, I replaced it with Archbang and I'm very happy.

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#3 2011-01-11 07:51:04

kazuya
Member
Registered: 2011-01-11
Posts: 93

Re: Archbang, child of Arch?

I used to like chakra a little until they decided to stick purely with kde and start steering off archlinux packages. That caused me to start dabbling with other distros like salix, ubuntu (my longest used distro), sabayon, vectorlinux and ofcourse archlinux.
Archbang is without a doubt here to stay for me. It is the first distro to give me easy or fast access to using archlinux. Wireless works off the bat. And it truly demonstrates the speed and customization potential of archlinux.
I am totally loving it.
Chakra was nice, but too restrictive for me in the sense that it pushes me to merely kde. I love gnome too much.
Thanks to arch, openbox is now one of my favorite DEs. Great job to the devs.

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#4 2012-12-21 02:22:08

axel668
Member
Registered: 2010-10-07
Posts: 50

Re: Archbang, child of Arch?

That's what I like about Archbang ... it's not Arch- based, it IS Arch, at least after the install is finished.

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#5 2012-12-21 05:16:34

ArchVortex
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From: Ts’elxweyeqw, Canada
Registered: 2011-04-01
Posts: 1,465

Re: Archbang, child of Arch?

We need to define "pure" Arch. The base install is "pure" Arch until the user starts configuring Arch (changing Host Name, mirrors, etc.) and then it is no longer pure Arch. After that, once the user starts configuring the install according to their needs (adding a WM or DE, network, xorg, etc.), it becomes their "version" of Arch, a "child" of Arch. ArchBang is a Crunchified version of Willxtreme's original 21 step Arch + Openbox. The difference between ArchBang and an Arch Dev/TU or long time Arch user's personal version (complete with tweaks and scripts) is that ArchBang is available for the Linux community and theirs is not.

Is ArchBang Arch? The saying goes "Arch is what you make it." If we go by this then yes, ArchBang is Arch. In the sense of DNA of the parent, ArchBang started out as Arch and became a version of Arch. But as many Archers would probably contend, ArchBang is the unwanted ginger haired step child of Arch.


You have the capacity to learn from mistakes. You'll learn a lot today.
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Currently running ArchBang / LFS / OpenSUSE Tumbleweed

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#6 2012-12-22 17:51:34

rob.til
Member
Registered: 2011-02-12
Posts: 41

Re: Archbang, child of Arch?

We need to define "pure" Arch. The base install is "pure" Arch until the user starts configuring Arch (changing Host Name, mirrors, etc.) and then it is no longer pure Arch.

That's utter nonsense! Configuring Arch doesn't change how it is working.

After that, once the user starts configuring the install according to their needs (adding a WM or DE, network, xorg, etc.), it becomes their "version" of Arch, a "child" of Arch.

Do you really think by choosing a subset of packages build for Arch makes it something different? Bullshit!

Is ArchBang Arch?

Yes, by all means!
Why? Unlike manjaro or Chakra, ArchBang still uses vanilla packages and Arch mirrors.

The saying goes "Arch is what you make it."

Quite true.
Arch doesn't impose any particular wm, dm or other subsets of packages.
Arch is more like a universe ready to build specific worlds,
eg. ArchBang with a well chosen subset of packages per-configured and ready to use.

Choice is good if you know what to choose...

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#7 2012-12-22 18:20:45

handy
Member
Registered: 2011-11-03
Posts: 505

Re: Archbang, child of Arch?

You two pedants could get into a great fight over absolutely nothing!

Which is fine if it is the fun of the fight that is your motivation.

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#8 2012-12-22 18:32:49

scjet
Member
From: Canada
Registered: 2010-12-01
Posts: 1,468

Re: Archbang, child of Arch?

ahh, it's all good too,
and fun, in comparison to my Pittsburgh Steelers forum, all because they lost to the Dallas Cowboys last week, they're all still screaming at each for this or that reason. Comapared to the more intellectual nuances here, my Steelers' Forum looks like a mine-filled danger zone right now.
Actually, there's some good discourse there too normally, but, for completely different trades' !

anyway, sorry for detouring off the topic here.
smile

Last edited by scjet (2012-12-22 18:51:31)

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#9 2012-12-23 15:03:28

rob.til
Member
Registered: 2011-02-12
Posts: 41

Re: Archbang, child of Arch?

You two pedants could get into a great fight over absolutely nothing!

Please vote for closing the 'feedback' thread.

Which is fine if it is the fun of the fight that is your motivation.

Don't confuse religious war with opinion

@scjet nice comment wink

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#10 2012-12-23 17:32:42

pablokal
Administrator
From: Nijmegen, Holland
Registered: 2010-10-12
Posts: 3,633
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Re: Archbang, child of Arch?

@rob.til: I tend to agree to your position; but why then all those Arch forum mods refuse to support questions coming from AB'ers if it is pure Arch?
They seem to agree with Archvortex; so it comes down to definition...? I don't think so.
They claim they are not in on specific AB configurations but they should  be able to blindly to solve specific problems coming from AB as there  are not any non Arch things going on..
And AB configuration is quite simple..not a thing that would pose a problem for someone with basic Arch knowledge.
This imho has something to do with culture and social processes: we break some Arch code or laws by offering a ready to go Arch and therefore are an illegitimate child, the idiot bastard son odf Arch, or at least its users are idiot bastards according to the Arch forum mods& the Arch herd. And we dare to be critical which makes us real pain in the asses because dissenters can find a place where their criticisms are reflected.


Getting your questions answered here at ArchBang Forums
Please! Always give hardware info, if there is a chance that 's relevant: #lspci -vnn
On Arch(bang) and Openbox: http://stillstup.blogspot.com/

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#11 2012-12-23 18:32:18

scjet
Member
From: Canada
Registered: 2010-12-01
Posts: 1,468

Re: Archbang, child of Arch?

I agree, (with Pablo), it's actually that bad sometimes, I've personally "read" comments/blogs,..., directly from their devs/moderators dissing Arch "distro's" such as Chakra, Manjaro, ArchBang, Bridge...., like it's a joke. Oh wait, I think I read somewhere that one of their dev's, Allan, actually liked "Cinnarch" a little bit -it's passable. ?...
pffft, mularkey I say !
Truth be told, they used to actually post things like, "...If you're using such-n-such Arch distro... please do not ask for any support here" blah blah.

The thing is, I do NOT know of any other Linux/BSD/.../whatevr unix/distro that does that ?!, meaning they(Arch) may be too busy to answer right away but still...
I don't get it. ?
In other words, "ARCH Linux" devs/mods should atleast be more helpful to the dev's and moderators of these so-called "other" Arch distro's -AB, as you rightfully said, is still Arch -but they prefer to treat it like an "unwelcome bastard" -as if it's any different from themselves.
Just try and post there, with your "Archbang" issues, and you'll know exactly what I mean.
Deep enough ?

I can understand (somewhat) Arch forums not wanting to be bothered with the "Users" of other Arch distro's, but don't ignore the hard work, and help that the Devs'/Mods',... of those so-called "other" Arch Distro's that may need support/help/guidance, ...., for their own "Users'" too.
Debian doesn't treat pppl like that, even redHat doesn't do that ?!

So, in a retarded-political sense, Archbang is treated like the unwelcome-bastard of Arch itself, why?, hell I dunno'. I don't like it, but what can I do?, I'm just another "User".

----------------

....and besides, my Pittsburgh Steelers have just lost their chance for the playoffs, and there is NO Hockey. so I'm not in the greatest of moods right now.
smile  sry -off topic again.

ok, jus kiddin',  but seriously, I can understand a bit where Archvortex is comin' from, as I'm sure you do too, ... no worries though.

Last edited by scjet (2012-12-23 18:57:02)

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#12 2012-12-23 19:38:39

scjet
Member
From: Canada
Registered: 2010-12-01
Posts: 1,468

Re: Archbang, child of Arch?

I realize I sounded a little rough around the edges, and/or I've had too much Xmas-liquid-cheer lately, but @Archvortex, the "child" of Arch can grow and flourish.
I know "systemd",..., was/is some major turning points, but the potential of Arch is still there. It really is.
I've literally been around the block with the unix's/Linux's distor's, as I'm sure most of you have, and Arch is potentially a ground-breaking distro, it's the diamond in the rough.
Why is  a (hand me your VISA-card)Windows still a household name I dunno,?, and I don't care.

So, just to cut this short. please keep Archbang going, it really is worth the "good fight", Crunchbang too knows that, hell, we could expand it all to a Slackbang, Redbang, Manbang Knoppixbang, Susebang, Freebang,....
On second-thought scratch some of those, 'cause Manbang and Freebang sound really weird, but anyway.

Ya, ok.

Cheers ALL !

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#13 2012-12-24 04:44:33

Mr Green
Administrator
Registered: 2010-11-07
Posts: 6,920

Re: Archbang, child of Arch?

I am thinking of closing threads here if anyone mentions The 'A' word. If that does not work I will ban scjet until new year smile


Comments, suggestions please feel free to contact me mrgreen(at)archbang(dot)org

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#14 2012-12-24 05:13:55

handy
Member
Registered: 2011-11-03
Posts: 505

Re: Archbang, child of Arch?

I'm sure that Misfit... made a really positive post in this forum. He is the major man as far as I know anyway, behind the Archwiki.

He & I have had some communications (beyond Arch) in emails in the past. He's a cool frude if ever there was one.

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#15 2012-12-24 05:39:41

pablokal
Administrator
From: Nijmegen, Holland
Registered: 2010-10-12
Posts: 3,633
Website

Re: Archbang, child of Arch?

I know not everyone should be judged to be as intolerant as the most proficient around.


Getting your questions answered here at ArchBang Forums
Please! Always give hardware info, if there is a chance that 's relevant: #lspci -vnn
On Arch(bang) and Openbox: http://stillstup.blogspot.com/

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#16 2012-12-24 06:29:52

Mr Green
Administrator
Registered: 2010-11-07
Posts: 6,920

Re: Archbang, child of Arch?

I miss Cactus ;(


Comments, suggestions please feel free to contact me mrgreen(at)archbang(dot)org

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#17 2012-12-24 14:16:02

rob.til
Member
Registered: 2011-02-12
Posts: 41

Re: Archbang, child of Arch?

Reading this thread makes me feel like an uninitiated novice
Pardon me if I sound like one... but why don't we create an AUR package ArchBang?
That way we make it theirs and this site merely promoting an AUR package wink
And regarding being dissed in the arch forum - just don't mention ArchBang.

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#18 2012-12-25 03:47:12

Mr Green
Administrator
Registered: 2010-11-07
Posts: 6,920

Re: Archbang, child of Arch?

We have thought about a repo in the past but it would need hosting and of course means more work. Personally do not like using AUR packages simply for reliability.


Comments, suggestions please feel free to contact me mrgreen(at)archbang(dot)org

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#19 2012-12-25 18:22:52

rob.til
Member
Registered: 2011-02-12
Posts: 41

Re: Archbang, child of Arch?

We have thought about a repo in the past but it would need hosting and of course means more work.

I didn't suggest nor do I think it's a good idea.

Personally do not like using AUR packages simply for reliability.

This depends entirely on the maintainer - after all, they are build by the same guidelines and can make it into community/extra just by voting.

I can't say if it can be done - but I think it's well worth trying. Instead of splitting the user base we let them partake.

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