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#76 2012-09-17 01:13:36

Mr Green
Administrator
Registered: 2010-11-07
Posts: 6,920

Re: Fork of udev - no need to change your Arch system from Linux to Lennax

Lets have repo then we can test under Virtualbox and then once we have it working I will build and upload it....


Comments, suggestions please feel free to contact me mrgreen(at)archbang(dot)org

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#77 2012-09-19 12:54:42

Jubei-Mitsuyoshi
Member
Registered: 2012-09-07
Posts: 37

Re: Fork of udev - no need to change your Arch system from Linux to Lennax

Hi guys, back smile
About half way through the whole thing, core is done, and getting through the 30 odd manditory udev builds, am working from git now so check it out,
the binaries are here https://github.com/Jubei-Mitsuyoshi/AXE-BINARY-REPO
the PKGBUILDS here https://github.com/Jubei-Mitsuyoshi/AXE
if you want the technical crap posted it on the arch thread.
All the binaries are i7-avx optimised but will work on most, there will be x86_64 to follow. you can download by gitclone.
Thanks smile

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#78 2012-09-19 15:45:00

pablokal
Administrator
From: Nijmegen, Holland
Registered: 2010-10-12
Posts: 3,633
Website

Re: Fork of udev - no need to change your Arch system from Linux to Lennax

Thanks again; I'm wandering if Arch is worth all the trouble...


Getting your questions answered here at ArchBang Forums
Please! Always give hardware info, if there is a chance that 's relevant: #lspci -vnn
On Arch(bang) and Openbox: http://stillstup.blogspot.com/

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#79 2012-09-19 18:32:20

Jubei-Mitsuyoshi
Member
Registered: 2012-09-07
Posts: 37

Re: Fork of udev - no need to change your Arch system from Linux to Lennax

Well as everyone said this is a lot more effort than i first thought, but whats my choice?, pretty much every other distro will be heading there ( sysd ), love gentoo but would be nice if that was not the only one smile and i have drawn my line in the sand here, and mean to finish what i started smile
Had a stroke of luck, turns out some of those 200+packages are piles of crap i would not touch with a long pole hence my target packages have gone down by a lot ( to approx 120 ish ) which most are done.
We are at critical mass now where when compiling the stable packages i will only be bringing deps from the custom repo with already sysd free packages, this second build will be the final PHEWWWW smile
I could really use some help though, i need someone to keep an eye out on the versions in my repo here https://github.com/Jubei-Mitsuyoshi/AXE … /archlinux compared to Arch, and flag me here or by email if any slip behind, that would be VERY useful until i automate that bit smile
Thanks

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#80 2012-09-20 05:33:12

scjet
Member
From: Canada
Registered: 2010-12-01
Posts: 1,468

Re: Fork of udev - no need to change your Arch system from Linux to Lennax

Jubei-Mitsuyoshi wrote:

Hi guys, back smile
About half way through the whole thing, core is done, and getting through the 30 odd manditory udev builds, am working from git now so check it out,
the binaries are here https://github.com/Jubei-Mitsuyoshi/AXE-BINARY-REPO
the PKGBUILDS here https://github.com/Jubei-Mitsuyoshi/AXE
if you want the technical crap posted it on the arch thread.
All the binaries are i7-avx optimised but will work on most, there will be x86_64 to follow. you can download by gitclone.
Thanks smile

Hey Thanks again Jubei, for all your hard work thus far.
jus' curious though, you mentioned "i7-avx optimised... x86_64 to folow, ..." ?
"i7" is alreadey 64-bit full data/memory paths,..., so I always use "x86_64" ?. I know we still need "i686" although I don't bother with any 32-bit anything anymore. smile
is this for pae stuff ?

Thx.

Last edited by scjet (2012-09-20 05:34:50)

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#81 2012-09-20 05:41:50

smil3y
Member
From: Bulgaria
Registered: 2012-09-13
Posts: 176
Website

Re: Fork of udev - no need to change your Arch system from Linux to Lennax

I mailed him about that (optimizing for specific CPU isn't a good idea for repository packages) and I think he agree on that one smile


GNU/Linux does not stop you from doing stupid things, because that would also stop you from doing clever things.

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#82 2012-09-20 05:44:29

scjet
Member
From: Canada
Registered: 2010-12-01
Posts: 1,468

Re: Fork of udev - no need to change your Arch system from Linux to Lennax

Jubei-Mitsuyoshi wrote:

Well as everyone said this is a lot more effort than i first thought, but whats my choice?, pretty much every other distro will be heading there ( sysd ), love gentoo but would be nice if that was not the only one smile and i have drawn my line in the sand here, and mean to finish what i started smile
Had a stroke of luck, turns out some of those 200+packages are piles of crap i would not touch with a long pole hence my target packages have gone down by a lot ( to approx 120 ish ) which most are done.
We are at critical mass now where when compiling the stable packages i will only be bringing deps from the custom repo with already sysd free packages, this second build will be the final PHEWWWW smile
I could really use some help though, i need someone to keep an eye out on the versions in my repo here https://github.com/Jubei-Mitsuyoshi/AXE … /archlinux compared to Arch, and flag me here or by email if any slip behind, that would be VERY useful until i automate that bit smile
Thanks

Sure, I'll help,
(you might have to train me a bit, on what to exactly watch for ?, and maybe we can even automate that as well, 'ya know, just to "alert" us, or whatever).
For the next few weeks though, family is going on some much needed holidays, Yea!, and we're moving to our new home, so I'll be kinda in/out here for the next few weeks soon.

Anyway, as many have already said for years now: "Arch is/should be, what the $USER wants it to be". And I still believe the Arch-Upstream Devs must also start taking a little compassionate NOTICE to that statement !
wink

Last edited by scjet (2012-09-20 06:54:06)

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#83 2012-09-20 07:36:30

handy
Member
Registered: 2011-11-03
Posts: 505

Re: Fork of udev - no need to change your Arch system from Linux to Lennax

I don't think that the Arch upstream dev's care, really. Like it or lump it. We make it use it if you like, if you don't you have plenty of other choices, so see ya.

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#84 2012-09-20 08:12:03

Jubei-Mitsuyoshi
Member
Registered: 2012-09-07
Posts: 37

Re: Fork of udev - no need to change your Arch system from Linux to Lennax

Not got to my mails yet smile
Yea when i have all this nailed will build for 86_64, but that will take second place, through experiment ( building thousands of packages developing AXE ) and lots of time on gentoo forums i have found that
1) optimizing for i7 architecture ( includes i3 i5 and new core2 ) with gcc 4.7>>    VERY GOOD IDEA if you have a i7 obviously:) you will see a measurable speed increase ( in the case of CUDA simulations of finite element soulutions, 37.2%, non processor/gpu intensive tasks approx7-19%, games on average 20% ), especially if you build the kernel etc and you will gain stability on a system-wide recompile
2) -03 on the same setup IS NOT DANGEROUS, dont believe the bulshit until you have tried extensive building yourself.
3) optimized binaries work on 86_64 in the same way as generic 86_64 work on modern i7 with large cache, badly smile smile so yes if you dont have a i7 you will be taking a hit in performance, the same hit i7 owners are always taking running generic 86_64.

Also personally i have ZERO passion to support old computers, be it 686, or old pentium combination or even old core2's. There are hundreds of distros and people into sqeezing the last ounce out of some anchient box, dont want to be one of them smile
This project is not about compromise, there is one design goal and methodology, if people need variants they are quite simple to compile up, the hard work is in the pkgbuilds which i have about done.
This project is about providing the BEST, ( fastest, sleekest, best looking, least ladened with bullshit ), that cannot be accomplished by accommodating every hardware platform, or by providing something that is a server as-well as a desktop. If you want a Ferrari buy a Ferrari, dont put stripes on your old toyota and pretend smile

PS Funtoo provides a i7 optimized stage3 tarball, which is the main reason funtoo is growing at an exponential rate

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#85 2012-09-20 08:14:07

scjet
Member
From: Canada
Registered: 2010-12-01
Posts: 1,468

Re: Fork of udev - no need to change your Arch system from Linux to Lennax

@handy I hear ya: "...Arch upstream dev's care, really. Like it or lump it. We make it use it if you like, if you don't you have plenty of other choices, so see ya."

But even the Arch Devs, can only do so much, even with what "they" want to do.
The Linux kernel says otherwise !,  so far. They(Arch Dev's) have to build onto that, and not the other way around, again. so far as we all know, unless they fork -well they actually have with all these "changes", in a way. -But no, they haven't.
I couldn't give a "rats-petoobee" what any Linux Developer thinks is what should be. I care for the options, so that I can make my own "quality" decision. If not, then I'll create/write my own. -LoL.
The funny thing is, for example, there is no "final" bootloader, grub2 will give way to grub3,... Maybe OpenRC will be the next replacement for Systemd, depending on many things,.... ? Nobody really knows, except right NOW, "systemd" is supposed to be the et' all's. It's a Legend in it's own mind. ya? well maybe just for today though ?.

Keep all options open,. as much as possible, without disruption -now that would be a feat that even Henry Ford, or his sons, strived for, but that was only for a Corprate Greed sense.
Scary, if not improbable -unfortunately.
But, you can't get in shit for tryin', and if you do, it's because "they"(powers that be - Arch-upstream) were jealous -for no reason.
smile
That's a start.
I say, lets show what the $USER wants, and if it's ultimately systemd, for example, then fine, but I want to have that "installable" OPTION of a non-systemd/rc/inits', if possible, no matter what, why?, 'cause they have woked fine for over 30 years in UNIX, ok, well maybe atleast over 20 years, I think.?
smile

Last edited by scjet (2012-09-20 08:35:33)

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#86 2012-09-20 08:44:40

scjet
Member
From: Canada
Registered: 2010-12-01
Posts: 1,468

Re: Fork of udev - no need to change your Arch system from Linux to Lennax

anway, that was getting off-topic, so as Jubei asks':
Anyone who wants to help/sign-up here, then that's fine.

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#87 2012-09-20 10:10:33

handy
Member
Registered: 2011-11-03
Posts: 505

Re: Fork of udev - no need to change your Arch system from Linux to Lennax

@scjet: It may have seemed like I was bitching about the Arch dev's attitude, but really, what is there to bitch about? They do the work, they make it how they want it to be. If it suits you use it, if it doesn't you don't. Just another way of saying like it or lump it. smile

If it comes to bitching I'm more for bitching about monopolies. Red Hat are by far the greatest contributor to the Linux system, for which I'm generally grateful. But I don't like monopolies & systemd is showing itself to be the result of such. As you say, systemd will pass, I fed it too much in the past before I gained a little appreciated for the politics of the situation.

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#88 2012-09-20 15:26:28

scjet
Member
From: Canada
Registered: 2010-12-01
Posts: 1,468

Re: Fork of udev - no need to change your Arch system from Linux to Lennax

@handy: On the contrary, I was agreeing with you, but added my extended "twist" to it. -imho.  Needless, I'm coming to the slow realization that "pro-chioce" is my stand, that's all.
and yep, I know all about RedHat too. wink

Last edited by scjet (2012-09-20 15:27:27)

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#89 2012-09-22 00:22:30

dodo3773
Member
Registered: 2011-11-17
Posts: 18

Re: Fork of udev - no need to change your Arch system from Linux to Lennax

Jubei-Mitsuyoshi wrote:

I could really use some help though, i need someone to keep an eye out on the versions in my repo here https://github.com/Jubei-Mitsuyoshi/AXE … /archlinux compared to Arch, and flag me here or by email if any slip behind, that would be VERY useful until i automate that bit smile
Thanks

Only found one. New version of git program. Your repo says:

git-1.7.12-1-x86_64.pkg.tar.xz

in Arch repo:

extra/git 1.7.12.1-1

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#90 2012-09-30 13:12:31

smil3y
Member
From: Bulgaria
Registered: 2012-09-13
Posts: 176
Website

Re: Fork of udev - no need to change your Arch system from Linux to Lennax

Greetings!

udev PKGBUILDs and and binary packages updated to v193, get them at the usual place https://github.com/fluxer/PKGBUILDs

Edit: New package - plymouth-lsd, some minor tweaks and syslog-ng-lsd has been updated.

Last edited by smil3y (2012-09-30 15:46:32)


GNU/Linux does not stop you from doing stupid things, because that would also stop you from doing clever things.

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#91 2012-10-01 06:53:18

smil3y
Member
From: Bulgaria
Registered: 2012-09-13
Posts: 176
Website

Re: Fork of udev - no need to change your Arch system from Linux to Lennax

Hello!

I'm working on backporting fixes from upstream to my own initscripts tree to keep them alive, as bug free as possible and without the systemd support. You can review it at https://github.com/fluxer/initscripts. Binary packages and PKGBUILD at the usual place.

Cheers!

Last edited by smil3y (2012-10-01 06:59:08)


GNU/Linux does not stop you from doing stupid things, because that would also stop you from doing clever things.

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#92 2012-10-01 13:05:07

pablokal
Administrator
From: Nijmegen, Holland
Registered: 2010-10-12
Posts: 3,633
Website

Re: Fork of udev - no need to change your Arch system from Linux to Lennax

Thanks, Smiley!


Getting your questions answered here at ArchBang Forums
Please! Always give hardware info, if there is a chance that 's relevant: #lspci -vnn
On Arch(bang) and Openbox: http://stillstup.blogspot.com/

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#93 2012-10-08 04:29:15

Jubei-Mitsuyoshi
Member
Registered: 2012-09-07
Posts: 37

Re: Fork of udev - no need to change your Arch system from Linux to Lennax

Back !!! have been on contract an unavailable, but working feverishly anyway. FINISHED.

https://github.com/Jubei-Mitsuyoshi/AXE-BUILD-REPO
https://github.com/Jubei-Mitsuyoshi/AXE-I7-BINARY-REPO
https://github.com/Jubei-Mitsuyoshi/AXE-MAINTAINED


Thats it, all of them , in binary and source, I am maintaining approx 70 packages, the rest are optimized passthroughs,
I am currently running a full cinnamon setup, NO SYSTEM D,  i have removed EVERYTHING !!!!!!!
Even the creation of systemd folders which is currently done in glib of all places !
Everything works but not shock tested or anything. I have brought a lot of gentoo work to arch which has
allowed me to strip a lot of gnome deps ( social web colord etc )
Finally the AXE script is finished which allows anyone even intermediate experience users to build their own versions.
This is here

https://jmitsuyoshi@bitbucket.org/jmitsuyoshi/axe.git
https://github.com/Jubei-Mitsuyoshi/AXE.git

and for easy download onto a base system ( which is where it should be run )

https://bitbucket.org/jmitsuyoshi/axe/downloads/axe.gz

This is from the AXE intro



"I am a script designed to massivly rebuild a sizable part of the Archlinux distribution in a particular direction.

My Directives........
1) AXE does not like systemd..... remove systemd at root by rebuilding around udev-fork
2) AXE does not like consolekit, polkit, pulseaudio, sudo, socialweb, colord..... remove as much as possible of them at root by clever patching and recompilation
and either replace thyeir functionality or remove the need for them entirly
3) AXE likes root.... make it easy and convenient to run everything as root, AXE uses its own far more effective security model
4) AXE only supports GTK 2/3, ( at the moment )
5) AXE likes Cinnamon

Why? ........ The nature of GCC and linux as a concept allows a user to tailor their Operating system (oS) to the exact perimeters of the hardware
and to their personal tastes, by doing so one can achieve considerable speed and stability improvements.

Why not Gentoo or any other source based distro? ..... Good question, gentoo is an excellent alternative to AXE and you should seriously consider
gentoo before trying AXE, having said that Archlinux is very very cutting edge and progressive, whereas gentoo is not, and portage is very
hard to learn and not as feature full as pacman/makepkg.${txtrst}"


How is all this achieved ? ..... Obviously as a script i cannot be imparted with all the code necessary to modify Arch
so extensively, so my creator has produced a collection of over 60 PKGBUILD's to do the job, they replace standard Arclinux packages
during the build process, these PKGBUILDS have been carefully modified to replace systemd and achieve my other goals,
they are also being maintained inline with arch packages and in some cases are better/newer.
The github locations for the repo,s i use are

https://github.com/Jubei-Mitsuyoshi/AXE-BUILD-REPO  ....... which contains my sources
https://github.com/Jubei-Mitsuyoshi/AXE-I7-BINARY-REPO ...... which contains I7 compiled binaries (more on that later )
https://github.com/Jubei-Mitsuyoshi/AXE-MAINTAINED ..... which contains all my creators original work

all the modifications are open to public scrutiny and criticism."

What i need........ i am designed to be run on a bare archlinux setup the following install medium have been tested

    archlinux-2012.08.04-dual.iso
    archlinux-2012.08.26-x86_64.iso
    archlinux-2012.09.07-dual.iso
   
I also need a stable and quick wired internet connection, all the other dependencies etc i will fetch for myself.

What do you need....... you need to have some basic knowledge of pacman, and understand what optimization flags mean,
not because you need to do any programming or anything but because i will be asking you some questions about your
personal optimization preferences, it would be useful if you knew what the fuck i was talking about.
   
How long does it take ..... About 24 hours on an I7 laptop, considerably less on a similar desktop

When i'm done ....... you will have a collection of optimized binaries, FULLY and beautifully crafted for your processor
you can then share these binaries with other AXE users so they can enjoy full optimization without the headache
of compiling

My modes of operation ....... I have several modes of operation that are chosen by menu choices and locations of sources

Dev mode ....... So you are a developer who wants to use the AXE git archive as a start to your own AXE version
Clone the AXE- MAINTAINED and AXE-PKGBUILD  git, ( on another pc obviously ), do your mods on AXE-MAINTAINED
as you see fit, use my USB STICK function to load your stuff to my dev folder, and the unmodified ( compressed)
sources to the USB folder. I will build your sources as preference and revert to my masters sources if yours are not present.

Bootstrap mode ........ So you have a I7 already, or you dont care about optimization but just hate/like the same things
my creator does. Just load your binary repo from git ( use the option when asked )chose the I7 and bootstrap option when asked,
then go through the instructions and within 5 min you will have a systemd-free setup, then you can create your own arch
just as if you were dealing with a normal arch setup. But obviously quicker and free from a lot of dependencies

Full rebuild mode ....... So you dont have a I7 and DO care about optimization, use the menu to load the sources git,
DO NOT answer yes to bootstrapping, answer the questions regarding the kernel and -O2/-O3, then wait 24 hours
or so for me to do my stuff"

Technical stuff ....... First i rebuild you toolchain, and i mean FULLY rebuild it, as if you were building a cross
compiler. This gives a rocksolid toolchain, i also prevent toolchain updates via pacman, and control updates
in my own fasion so all toolchain components remain rock solid.

The toolchain is build -O2 and in a special sequence, this is fixed in code and should never be changed.

My build algorithm for other packages is quite complex and goes something like this

fetch sources > build in ram > if fails build in HDD > if it fails build in HDD with cpu cores set to 1 > if it fails

mark it a build fail and try to build it in a clean chroot environment > if it fails its a arch maintainers issue
                                                                       > if it succeeds its my fault and issue
                                                                      
During stage 1 i rebuild the kernel and give you a choice of full kernel hacking via nmenu.
I give you a choice of rebuilding with -O2 or -O3, this applies throughout the entire build and is only asked
once. Eventually i will give users the option of specifying -O2/-O3 per package

I reboot the machine at various stages of the build

The process is totally automated with some obvious exceptions, on each reboot you have to log back in,
at the start you will have to answer some questions, if you chose the menu option to rebuild your kernel
you have to be there to do that"

Currently systemd in AXE is replaced by the old Archlinux initscripts, very shortly that will be replaced with runit or equivalent

Once you have your collection of binaries i highly encourage you to upload them onto git for other people to benefit from,
if you dont know how to do that i can do it automatically for you, just contact my creator first at

<           >

and he will be glad to create a git and an alternate version of myself to access it."

ENJOY !:)

A word to the Arch devs, ( since no doubt they will be scanning over this ) bloody maintain your packages, dont just look at them when its time to bump !!!!
I have had to personally take over maintenance of 11 or so packages in the AXE project, they will NEVER
build untill you patch them up in the same way i have. Its not friggin rocket science, just copy gentoos work for fuck sake !!

Finally talking of gentoo there is a real possibility of bringing use flags to the axe project

Last edited by Jubei-Mitsuyoshi (2012-10-08 04:32:30)

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#94 2012-10-08 06:59:39

oliver
Administrator
Registered: 2010-11-04
Posts: 2,209

Re: Fork of udev - no need to change your Arch system from Linux to Lennax

Jubei-Mitsuyoshi wrote:

Finally talking of gentoo there is a real possibility of bringing use flags to the axe project

Not meaning to gloss over the main part of your post, but USE flags would be a fantastic addition

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#95 2012-10-08 07:24:38

ArchVortex
Retired
From: Ts’elxweyeqw, Canada
Registered: 2011-04-01
Posts: 1,465

Re: Fork of udev - no need to change your Arch system from Linux to Lennax

USE Flags!!! YES PLEASE!!!!


You have the capacity to learn from mistakes. You'll learn a lot today.
FP:E5F8 7DBA 8128 9ACB 75F7 7279 BE34 AB66 76D9 16DE
KEY ID:76D916DE
Currently running ArchBang / LFS / OpenSUSE Tumbleweed

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#96 2012-10-08 09:39:16

Jubei-Mitsuyoshi
Member
Registered: 2012-09-07
Posts: 37

Re: Fork of udev - no need to change your Arch system from Linux to Lennax

well its possible only because one is recompiling the system anyway, one simply inserts a bash routine into the PKGBUILDs which picks up global variables describing the use flags and modifys the PKGBUILD configure function accordingly. I am really a beginner in bash ( as you can tell from the axe script smile ) and could implement it simply, but it would be MUCH better if makpkg had the fuction built-in.
It would be quite labor intensive but since im modifying a whole bunch of PKGBUILDS anyway why not ?
In a lot of cases thought ( GNOME ! ) one would have to apply a whole bunch of gentoo patches to make it work exactly like gentoo, but thats actually mandatory in most of gnomes case since nothing compiles against cups 1.6 and has to be patched to hell to compile. A fact Arch maintainers will find when they actually try to compile their packages.
Talking of that i am drifting away from arch slowly, i have got to here with zero help from a single one of them, for the packages i have rewritten i am going to use a utility to update directly from source and maintain them properly, might end up doing that with a lot more of them.
Obviously everything is arch compatible ( well apart from the non-sysd stuff ).
I think without pacman/makpkg integration a proper use flag system with dependency resolution is impossible, but defiantly could do "profiles" ie colord on/off, ( which actually would creep me out writing since axe hates colord smile )

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#97 2012-10-08 11:19:12

dodo3773
Member
Registered: 2011-11-17
Posts: 18

Re: Fork of udev - no need to change your Arch system from Linux to Lennax

Okay a couple of questions:

Is there a repo where someone with an existing install (I use i7 already) can just switch and try?

From looking at the package list (hope I didn't skim past it) I did not notice a lot (any) multilib stuff. Are you going to implement this?

How is it going to be possible to keep from new updates overriding the versions from these builds? Are they masked somewhere or something? Are you planning to bump your versions to a 9999 style to avoid this?

In removing polkit / consolekit does everything still work currently (networkmanager comes to mind)?

Is the plan to stick with sysvinit or are you thinking about other init systems for this project (just curious I like sysv anyways)?

What cflags did you use to build the binary packages in your github (i7 or i7-avx, -O2 or -O3, graphite enabled or disabled, etc..etc...)?

That's all I can think of right now. Will be watching this project for sure. Not a huge fan of systemd personally.

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#98 2012-10-08 13:00:19

Jubei-Mitsuyoshi
Member
Registered: 2012-09-07
Posts: 37

Re: Fork of udev - no need to change your Arch system from Linux to Lennax

dodo3773 wrote:

Okay a couple of questions:

Is there a repo where someone with an existing install (I use i7 already) can just switch and try?

From looking at the package list (hope I didn't skim past it) I did not notice a lot (any) multilib stuff. Are you going to implement this?

How is it going to be possible to keep from new updates overriding the versions from these builds? Are they masked somewhere or something? Are you planning to bump your versions to a 9999 style to avoid this?

In removing polkit / consolekit does everything still work currently (networkmanager comes to mind)?

Is the plan to stick with sysvinit or are you thinking about other init systems for this project (just curious I like sysv anyways)?

What cflags did you use to build the binary packages in your github (i7 or i7-avx, -O2 or -O3, graphite enabled or disabled, etc..etc...)?

That's all I can think of right now. Will be watching this project for sure. Not a huge fan of systemd personally.

Yes you can use the binary repo on an existing install, but switching over to udev-fork will be tricky and will depend on which programs you have installed already, and it will be up to you to setup a custom repo etc, ( or pull it straight from git ), the axe script has a "bootstrap" facility which might do it but again depends on your packages.

No there is no speed benefit to be gained by optimizing 32bit binaries, BUT the multilib toolchain is fully supported, and detected, if you have the multilib folders the full multilib toolchain will be built in typical rocksolid AXE fashion, hence you will be able to run stock arch multilib stuff.

I will simply keep them updated inline with source, they will always be the same or higher version than their arch counterparts ( in the case of alsa stack i am using newer sources than arch ) also for the next compile run i will be using the rel variable, but thats to stop pacman rebelling smile
At the moment i will be doing a compile run and version update every few weeks, but when have the build bot sorted will be doing a compile run every week strictly smile It would be possible as arch does it to just build updates against the existing "cloud" of packages, but this is AXE, and i like to do things right smile

Polkit ect not gone yet, will take time, and is much harder then removing sysd, i am going to have to go into the code of several major gnome apps to take the fuckers out completely, yes everything works, i am sitting with a full working cinnamon desktop, dbus, especially i am proud of smile
network manager everything a ok.

Good point will post up the list when get to the linux box in a bit

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#99 2012-10-08 13:20:03

dodo3773
Member
Registered: 2011-11-17
Posts: 18

Re: Fork of udev - no need to change your Arch system from Linux to Lennax

Awesome all sounds good. I will stay tuned. As long as all packages are above the ones in the standard repos it should be okay for now I guess (may have to think about how to do this though a little more if not a repo (just trying to think ahead a little (still not sure how that end of it will work))). I think it would be good to have detailed instructions though too on how to use these packages. I am assuming it is just a git pull and then run the script but more documentation is always welcomed. Also, who's currently working on the Jubei-Mitsuyoshi-archbang spin for the next release hint hint to any iso makers listening wink

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#100 2012-10-09 06:42:25

pablokal
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From: Nijmegen, Holland
Registered: 2010-10-12
Posts: 3,633
Website

Re: Fork of udev - no need to change your Arch system from Linux to Lennax

I started a dedicated  thread with news about the AXE project of Jubei.
Please post all news about it there, so it will be more easily found: http://bbs.archbang.org/viewtopic.php?id=3457
All discussions here, please.


Getting your questions answered here at ArchBang Forums
Please! Always give hardware info, if there is a chance that 's relevant: #lspci -vnn
On Arch(bang) and Openbox: http://stillstup.blogspot.com/

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#101 2012-10-09 11:38:34

Jubei-Mitsuyoshi
Member
Registered: 2012-09-07
Posts: 37

Re: Fork of udev - no need to change your Arch system from Linux to Lennax

well i just got slagged off on github something rotten, and have totally blown my top, i am moving all the work, and will only announce the new repo locations here at archbang and to friends, i will help out arcbang as much as possible with integrating any packages they require to make whatever system they want, but am through trying to help Arch propper, and or the wider linux community. So given that can you guys give me a list of packages you want built and i will run them through on "generic 86_64" setting, do you need a 86 set aswell ?

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#102 2012-10-09 12:50:39

oliver
Administrator
Registered: 2010-11-04
Posts: 2,209

Re: Fork of udev - no need to change your Arch system from Linux to Lennax

Jubei-Mitsuyoshi wrote:

My Directives........
1) AXE does not like systemd..... remove systemd at root by rebuilding around udev-fork
2) AXE does not like consolekit, polkit, pulseaudio, sudo, socialweb, colord..... remove as much as possible of them at root by clever patching and recompilation
and either replace thyeir functionality or remove the need for them entirly
3) AXE likes root.... make it easy and convenient to run everything as root, AXE uses its own far more effective security model
4) AXE only supports GTK 2/3, ( at the moment )
5) AXE likes Cinnamon

Is it correct to say that AXE is taking your non-systemd pkgs one step further? (i.e. you can go non-systemd without AXE but you can't install AXE without going non-systemd)

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#103 2012-10-09 13:45:40

Jubei-Mitsuyoshi
Member
Registered: 2012-09-07
Posts: 37

Re: Fork of udev - no need to change your Arch system from Linux to Lennax

eventually the goal was to go much further yes, but at the moment the best i have actually achieved in extended goals is to remove social-web colord and udisks ( experimental, the real udisks is retained in the archive until tests finish ) from the gnome-desktop dependencies , well cinnamon but you get the point since they are identical as far as deps goes , and obviously retain all functions etc etc.. that leaves consolekit brought in by gnome session, ( almost cracked that one ) and polkit brought in by everything smile which is getting to be impossibly hard to crack.
No because of deps you HAVE to chose between systemd or udev-fork, all my MAINTAINED packages are not compatible with systemd at all, the others which i refer to as passthrough are just stock arch pkgbuilds optimized hence compatible with anything.
The rule of thumb is if its a service within a matter of weeks one will have to chose sysd or not sysd, there wont be a "both" option, and unfortunately im the only one providing the latter option in a complete form.
BTW .. Cinnamon and deps have been added to the binary and source archive, compiz 0.9.8 ( straight from ubuntu testing ) on its way tomorrow

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#104 2012-10-09 16:24:56

pablokal
Administrator
From: Nijmegen, Holland
Registered: 2010-10-12
Posts: 3,633
Website

Re: Fork of udev - no need to change your Arch system from Linux to Lennax

Sorry to hear about your git problems.
If you ask what you can contribute to the Archbang environment, I do find that difficult to answer.
I find it incredible with what wide a scope you have acted, very impressive and what a will power..
but I would like to keep it as simple as possible for a new AB user; so that he doesn't has to use a whole different repository, which will hard to maintain in the long run.
The Arch devs have chosen to make the systemd a breaking point; they wanted to get rid of the people with an independent, critical mind since the package safety discussion, I'm convinced of that..
As you mentioned before, you are quite doubtful if you want to stick with Arch and seeing the way you were treated, I fully understand that.

I personally am more and more inclined to say goodbye to the whole Arch ecosystem (and therefore Archbang).
Using the work of people that I really dislike in their mentality, behaviour and midterm goals, is becoming more and more an impossible contradiction.
It is hard for me to read the Arch forums without being revolted by the behaviour of important devs and their sheep herd.
For that reason I find it difficult to motivate you to go ahead with your project in which you haven't got the support you are deserving...


Getting your questions answered here at ArchBang Forums
Please! Always give hardware info, if there is a chance that 's relevant: #lspci -vnn
On Arch(bang) and Openbox: http://stillstup.blogspot.com/

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#105 2012-10-10 02:38:16

smil3y
Member
From: Bulgaria
Registered: 2012-09-13
Posts: 176
Website

Re: Fork of udev - no need to change your Arch system from Linux to Lennax

I don't know if you have noticed but my fork of initscripts has changed a lot. I've played with them and the result is this: http://imageshack.us/a/img171/808/screenfu.png. To make it work you will have to use the fix_daemons.sh script which is on github (https://github.com/fluxer/initscripts/tree/master/misc) like this:

wget https://raw.github.com/fluxer/initscripts/master/misc/fix_daemons.sh
chmod +x fix_daemons.sh
./fix_daemons.sh /etc/rc.d/*

Any comments, feedback and bug reports appreciated. Cheers!


GNU/Linux does not stop you from doing stupid things, because that would also stop you from doing clever things.

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#106 2012-10-10 02:47:09

pablokal
Administrator
From: Nijmegen, Holland
Registered: 2010-10-12
Posts: 3,633
Website

Re: Fork of udev - no need to change your Arch system from Linux to Lennax

Thanks smil3y for your contribution. Please start a thread in: http://bbs.archbang.org/viewforum.php?id=26


Getting your questions answered here at ArchBang Forums
Please! Always give hardware info, if there is a chance that 's relevant: #lspci -vnn
On Arch(bang) and Openbox: http://stillstup.blogspot.com/

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#107 2012-10-10 02:50:13

smil3y
Member
From: Bulgaria
Registered: 2012-09-13
Posts: 176
Website

Re: Fork of udev - no need to change your Arch system from Linux to Lennax

Will do.


GNU/Linux does not stop you from doing stupid things, because that would also stop you from doing clever things.

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