Ipod

matt0076 · 2012-05-26 21:12:27

Hey ab forums, I've been using ab for a whole day now and have figured out how to do almost everything I need with the exception of getting my ipod to do anything.

If someone could kindly link me to a guide on creating mountpoints (I think thats what I'm supposed to do), basically I want to be able to sync my ipod and also transfer songs from it onto my computer. Currently when I plug it in nothing happens.

Sorry for the noob question, it may not seem like it but I did spend some time trying to figure it out by myself before asking for help.

oliver · 2012-05-27 05:19:05

when you plug it in, is it recognized?

Try plugging it in again, wait and few seconds and then run "dmesg" (without the quotes) and look at the last 20 or so lines for something ipod related.

matt0076 · 2012-05-27 10:13:30

oliver wrote:

when you plug it in, is it recognized?
Try plugging it in again, wait and few seconds and then run "dmesg" (without the quotes) and look at the last 20 or so lines for something ipod related.

Nothing at all ipod related, however my ipod does charge when it's plugged in if that's at all relevant.

oliver · 2012-05-27 14:40:48

I just want to make sure we're looking at the same thing... but in saying that, I only have an old ipod shuffle and your output *should* be slightly different depending on some other factors

I plugged in a regular USB stick and then the ipod... here's the output from dmesg

$ dmesg | tail -30
[   66.456938] usb 3-3: new high-speed USB device number 2 using ehci_hcd
[   66.653623] usbcore: registered new interface driver uas
[   66.658170] Initializing USB Mass Storage driver...
[   66.658277] scsi5 : usb-storage 3-3:1.0
[   66.658354] usbcore: registered new interface driver usb-storage
[   66.658355] USB Mass Storage support registered.
[   67.661240] scsi 5:0:0:0: Direct-Access     Kingston DataTraveler 2.0 1.00 PQ: 0 ANSI: 2
[   67.663052] sd 5:0:0:0: [sdb] 978688 512-byte logical blocks: (501 MB/477 MiB)
[   67.663683] sd 5:0:0:0: [sdb] Write Protect is off
[   67.663697] sd 5:0:0:0: [sdb] Mode Sense: 03 00 00 00
[   67.664303] sd 5:0:0:0: [sdb] No Caching mode page present
[   67.664312] sd 5:0:0:0: [sdb] Assuming drive cache: write through
[   67.668180] sd 5:0:0:0: [sdb] No Caching mode page present
[   67.668189] sd 5:0:0:0: [sdb] Assuming drive cache: write through
[   67.669049]  sdb: sdb1
[   67.672051] sd 5:0:0:0: [sdb] No Caching mode page present
[   67.672060] sd 5:0:0:0: [sdb] Assuming drive cache: write through
[   67.672067] sd 5:0:0:0: [sdb] Attached SCSI removable disk
[   68.025622] ISO 9660 Extensions: RRIP_1991A
[  120.126718] usb 3-4: new high-speed USB device number 3 using ehci_hcd
[  120.252768] scsi6 : usb-storage 3-4:1.0
[  121.254377] scsi 6:0:0:0: Direct-Access     Apple    iPod             2.70 PQ: 0 ANSI: 2
[  121.256197] sd 6:0:0:0: [sdc] 495616 2048-byte logical blocks: (1.01 GB/968 MiB)
[  121.256708] sd 6:0:0:0: [sdc] Write Protect is off
[  121.256724] sd 6:0:0:0: [sdc] Mode Sense: 64 00 00 08
[  121.257310] sd 6:0:0:0: [sdc] Write cache: disabled, read cache: enabled, doesn't support DPO or FUA
[  121.259826] sd 6:0:0:0: [sdc] 495616 2048-byte logical blocks: (1.01 GB/968 MiB)
[  121.269233]  sdc:
[  121.270692] sd 6:0:0:0: [sdc] 495616 2048-byte logical blocks: (1.01 GB/968 MiB)
[  121.271914] sd 6:0:0:0: [sdc] Attached SCSI removable disk

At "67.661240" you'll see the identifier for my USB stick
At "121.254377" you'll see the ipod is recognized

(And I did take about a minute between plugging them in - the delay in recognition shouldn't be more than a few seconds)

Until you're seeing the device recognized, I think you're stuck unless someone else has ideas.

Mr Green · 2012-05-27 22:38:12

You can also check lsusb if device has been detected, I use gtkpod for syncing and transferring music. Although some of the bigger media such as banshee can do it too.

mike4ca · 2012-05-28 20:06:17

Not sure if this would help with your mounting issue, but I wanted to bring to your attention that there is an alternative open source firmware for your ipod. See http://www.rockbox.org/. I have a Sansa Fuze+. Besides the firmware having a lot more features and being faster, there is a native Linux app for managing the device. And of course it is available in the AUR here https://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=25559 or as binary here https://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=26864.

ratcheer · 2012-07-29 08:50:23

I'm not sure if this is still needed, but I just connected my iPod, this morning. I'm not sure if I did everything correctly, but it did work. It took some searching to get everything together.

1) lsusb showed that my iPod was recognized
2) After a few misdirected attempts at working with the device (based on the Arch Wiki), running blkid showed me what I needed to know
3) Created a mount point: mkdir /media/ipod
4) mount -U 8CD5-1AEA /media/ipod ( <<== that is my UUID, anyone else's should be different)

For what it's worth, my device name is /dev/sdg2

Used gtkpod app to import my music from my iPod to a directory in my home directory.

This basically works and I am having trouble getting used to what gtkpod is and what it does. It imported 992 music files, but I have 1887 on my iPod. I believe it does not work with actual Apple iTunes files. If it doesn't, what good is it? The gtkpod docs do not mention any such shortcoming, but I am just starting to dig into all this.

Tim

mike4ca · 2012-07-29 19:35:11

Are these itunes files still DRM protected? I have never had itunes but have heard that the itunes Match allows you to up load all of your library and then it converts them all to DRM free versions. You can then download the none DRM version. It costs $25 a year, but once you get them all converted and downloaded you don't need to keep paying.

ratcheer · 2012-07-30 06:31:56

mike4ca wrote:

Are these itunes files still DRM protected? I have never had itunes but have heard that the itunes Match allows you to up load all of your library and then it converts them all to DRM free versions. You can then download the none DRM version. It costs $25 a year, but once you get them all converted and downloaded you don't need to keep paying.

Yes, after messing with it all day, I decided that is the problem. I can understand why they had to do this, but I find it strange that the gtkpod documentation does not mention it. It basically says that you can import your music files from the iPod to your computer.

I think the 96 files that were not copied to the disk drive are the ones I bought via iTunes.

The 813 files that were not loaded into the gtkpod Music Library are .m4a files that I ripped from my CD's using iTunes. The 179 that were loaded are .mp3's. I don't know where they came from, I never use mp3's. Anyway, after my research, I think this is a bug in gtkpod. It is supposed to handle non-DRM m4a's, it is just failing to do so.

The upshot of this, for me, is that gtkpod is useless. Maybe I can buy a used Mac just to use for iTunes. Or, ugh, set up a Windows PC.

Tim

mike4ca · 2012-07-30 11:32:31

itunes in Wine? Might be worth looking into. Worse case would be to run windows in a virtual machine long enough to free up your music.

oliver · 2012-07-30 13:34:11

if you run gtkpod from a command line does it give any useful info about what is failing?

SpawnHappyJake · 2012-07-31 01:52:32

First and foremost, try to play a song that you bought off iTunes off your iPod from within Linux. I.e., open the file browser, navigate to where the iPod is mounted, and double-click a song file until you find one that is one you bought. If you can play it within Linux, there is no DRM on the iPod. If there was, the song you bought off iTunes would be encrypted, and you wouldn't be able to sensically play it in Linux (might make a bunch of noise, but certainly not music, not even to the most hard-core Techno fan.). The music is in a hidden folder (press Ctrl+h to switch between showing and not showing hidden folders): .../iPod_Control/Music/F*/* . Just copy the files off yourself if you have to...using a script of course.

Nothing at all ipod related [happens]...

As far as "nothing ipod related" happening when you plug it in, that's just a lack of automation. If it's showing in lsusb, the iPod and OS are at least talking to each other. If it didn't show up in lsusb, it'd probably be due to very low iPod batter power, and once it gets charged enough, it should then talk to the computer and show up in lsusb.

... however my ipod does charge when it's plugged in if that's at all relevant.

Thank goodness this isn't relevent! They start charging whenever connected to power. No digital communication is needed to cause charging to happen, as proven by charging an iPod through a wall outlet power adapter.
If this was relevent (i.e., if digital communication was required to charge the iPod) a corrupted iPod might not be chargable (so how would you fix it if the battery was dead?) and wall chargers would have to be "smart wall chargers" equiped with the nesicarry software, etc. It would just make the world scary.

[concerning DRM] Yes, after messing with it all day, I decided that is the problem.

I'm skeptical that DRM is the problem. I myself have an old iPod (old enough to behave as a regular SCSI device, i.e., operate like a regular USB hard drive). I haven't used it in a long time. I plugged it in, opened the file browser, and played music off the iPod from Linux no problem. That was with a song I bought off iTunes. So if I can play music off the iPod from Linux (impling that I am not decrypting anything), there must not be any DRM involved, at least on the iPod end of things. To check the iTunes end of things (where you have to copy from; if this is encrypted, you'd have a problem getting sensical songs on the iPod), I tried to play an m4a in my iTunes music folder on a Windows side; an m4a that I bought off iTunes. Sure enough, it played just fine from Linux. So no DRM there either.

Where are you importing songs from? Have you tried getting it to scan [windows home]/(My )Documents/(My )Music/iTunes Music for all music files?

A program called PyMusique was written to allow Linux users to buy music off the iTunes store natively. This was re-written as SharpMusique. An unintended side-effect was that this circumvents DRM, because iTunes DRM isn't applied until after it is downloaded on the user's local machine, rather than on their end (which is wierd). So maybe you can try that, but I thought iTunes stopped doing DRM. Or maybe they're back at it?

Another DRM-free solution is the Ubuntu-One store.

Basically, get all your music DRM-free somehow (just don't waste a bunch of CDs doing it - there _are_ better ways), import it into some Linux-native music program, and ditch iTunes, except maybe for buying new songs/stuff.

With newer iPods that can connect to WiFi and have an iTunes app, iTunes is not a problem for Linux-only users because it can all be done on the device; no iTunes on your computer needed.

but I have 1887 on my iPod.

1887 music files, or 1887 files? There will always be more files than just music files. There are extra files such as calendars, notes, contacts, artwork, preferences, iTunes control, iTunes database, iTunes preferences, the plist file, etc.

itunes in Wine?

Nope. Not worth looking into. That's something I've watched for quite a while, and it doesn't look like anyone wants to develop Wine to work with iTunes, given all the alternatives. I even tried using the Wine USB patch one time...iTunes couldn't see the iPhone.

Ratcheer, you have an older iPod, appearently, which makes matters MUCH simpler!

Your iPod actually communicates via the SCSI command set through the USB connection, i.e, acts just like a USB hard drive.

So when you plug it in, /dev/sdX is automatically created, and if it's not auto-mounted, you can manually mount it, and from there it is treated it just like a hard drive. You can put any files on it, delete any files off it, and copy any files off. You can work with it in the filemanager or from terminal.

This is in contrast to newer iPods and the iPhone. When one of these is plugged in, sure, it shows up in lsusb, but it does not communicate to the computer via the SCSI command set. It makes no effort to appear as a hard drive. Thus no /dev/sdX file is made for the device.

Rather, one must communicate to it with it's special (assuming proprietary) command set. This requires libimobiledevice.

libimobiledevice allows a daemon to communicate to the imobiledevice. Rather than mounting the typical "/dev/sd*" absraction file, the daemon is mounted. Yep, you can mount programs too.

This is very similar to how Linux mounts audio CDs. Audio CDs have no filesystems and no files. They only have tracks, where each track is a more-or-less a raw-written song. Therefore, the typical /dev/sr* abstraction file can't be mounted. Rather, a program that detects audio CDs in Linux is mounted. When one navigates to where the daemon has been mounted, one sees an artificially-created file for each song, making ripping as easy as copying the arificial files off.

In the same way, libimobiledevice allows an imobiledevice to be mounted via a daemon.

Jake

Last edited by SpawnHappyJake (2012-07-31 01:59:48)

ratcheer · 2012-07-31 07:13:54

Thanks for all the tips, @SpawnHappyJake. However, I threw in the towel and deleted gtkpod and the twenty-five other packages that were installed as its dependencies. I did research on Apple Support and found that I could do something on the Mac that I never thought was possible - by setting up a new user account, I can have a completely separate instance of iTunes to manage a separate iPod (from the existing user's). So, I borrowed my son's Macbook Pro and did that. Everything works perfectly with no muss and no fuss.

The problem with the m4a files being brought into the gtkpod library was a plugin issue in gtkpod. All I had to do was check a box in preferences to allow it to use the m4a's. I still think it is stupid that that is not enabled by default. However, when I then went to re-add the folder with the m4a's, gtkpod crashed. I understand that this is a known bug which should be fixed in the next release of gtkpod.

Here are the error messages:

*** buffer overflow detected ***: gtkpod - terminated
gtkpod: buffer overflow attack in function <unknown> - terminated

I guess I am just too lazy. I just wanted to manage my iPod, I didn't want it to be a 4-day project.

Tim

Last edited by ratcheer (2012-07-31 11:25:15)

SpawnHappyJake · 2012-07-31 12:18:06

You'd think it'd be as easy as using Banshee. As I said earlier, because you have an older iPod, the task is greatly simplified: you do not need libimobiledevice. It's as simple as putting files on a USB hard drive. Well, files in the right place and whatnot...but again, I would think that Banshee would handle that for you.

ratcheer · 2012-08-02 07:35:51

About the m4a's that cannot be brought into the Music Library - I am working with a gtkpod developer who agrees that it is a real problem and he is working with me to figure out what is wrong.

He has showed me that it is just some of the m4a files that are causing the crash. I have now been able to bring in over 800 of the m4a files. I have sent him some of the "bad" ones for deep inspection. Even the "bad" ones can be played with vlc and the iPod. So, there is nothing really wrong with them, but something about them makes gtkpod crash.

Tim

Mr Green · 2012-08-02 08:47:07

I have a 30gb apple ipod video, had loads of fun setting it up under linux use a combination of gtkpod and banshee.

Did use Exaile for many years but it finally gave up on my ipod.

Is your pod formated for apple or windows?

SpawnHappyJake · 2012-08-02 11:12:08

It's "formatted for Windows" as they say.
It's FAT32 formatted, as opposed to HFS+ or HFS formatted. I can tell by the short UUID. HFS+ has a much longer UUID, like ext filesystems.
Unless maybe HFS (not plus) has short UUIDs, but I doubt this is the case.

Mr Green · 2012-08-02 11:35:35

Emmm Mine is indeed vfat

UUID="7A4C-E4F9"

Getting Apple products working is a real pain, so I am never going to buy another...

But then with recent Smart Phones why would you.

Arch Linux

Announcement

#1 2012-05-26 21:12:27

Ipod

#2 2012-05-27 05:19:05

Re: Ipod

#3 2012-05-27 10:13:30

Re: Ipod

#4 2012-05-27 14:40:48

Re: Ipod

#5 2012-05-27 22:38:12

Re: Ipod

#6 2012-05-28 20:06:17

Re: Ipod

#7 2012-07-29 08:50:23

Re: Ipod

#8 2012-07-29 19:35:11

Re: Ipod

#9 2012-07-30 06:31:56

Re: Ipod

#10 2012-07-30 11:32:31

Re: Ipod

#11 2012-07-30 13:34:11

Re: Ipod

#12 2012-07-31 01:52:32

Re: Ipod

#13 2012-07-31 07:13:54

Re: Ipod

#14 2012-07-31 12:18:06

Re: Ipod

#15 2012-08-02 07:35:51

Re: Ipod

#16 2012-08-02 08:47:07

Re: Ipod

#17 2012-08-02 11:12:08

Re: Ipod

#18 2012-08-02 11:35:35

Re: Ipod

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