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#1 2014-08-21 15:47:48

smil3y
Member
From: Bulgaria
Registered: 2012-09-13
Posts: 176
Website

Hello again!

Hello,

It's been a while since I posted! Life has been crunching but I'm still here to say
that I'm happy systemd-free user smile. I've been working on a few things silently in
my free time - something that can be of use to me and to show you that you
can prove the people wrong about things like "Qt is slow" or "systemd is the future"
and such. My work is mostly dedicated to myself, doing what I did before didn't
turned out as I expected so I've just moved on. In case you are wondering what is
it that I'm doing, a few screenshots may satisfy your curiosity, note that the last
screenshot is of something I'm no longer working on:

htop.jpg

qworkspace.jpg

qdesktop.jpg

Stay healthy and stand-up on what you deserve - your freedom!


GNU/Linux does not stop you from doing stupid things, because that would also stop you from doing clever things.

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#2 2014-08-22 04:38:54

pjhalsli
Member
Registered: 2013-12-25
Posts: 40

Re: Hello again!

Hi smile
I'm curious of how you get your tabs to look that way in the browser. Looks real cool smile


Too old to know better
Still too young to care

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#3 2014-08-22 05:53:00

smil3y
Member
From: Bulgaria
Registered: 2012-09-13
Posts: 176
Website

Re: Hello again!

Hello, pjhalsli

My guess is you are talking about the 3rd screenshot, it uses QDarkStyleSheet. For built-in styles (there are a few bundled with Qt) you just call app.setStyle(<name>) or app.setStyleSheet(<css code>) both methods should be supported by all widgets (haven't played with that yet, I just set it globally). Now, I just read the QDarkStyle sheet file and pass it to setStyleSheet() and it's done.


GNU/Linux does not stop you from doing stupid things, because that would also stop you from doing clever things.

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#4 2014-08-24 10:54:11

scjet
Member
From: Canada
Registered: 2010-12-01
Posts: 1,463

Re: Hello again!

Hey bud, nice to hear from you.
Glad all is well.  systemd-free you go girl !
wink

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#5 2014-08-24 11:12:57

smil3y
Member
From: Bulgaria
Registered: 2012-09-13
Posts: 176
Website

Re: Hello again!

@scjet

I'm a man, but thanks anyway. smile


GNU/Linux does not stop you from doing stupid things, because that would also stop you from doing clever things.

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#6 2014-08-26 17:49:50

scjet
Member
From: Canada
Registered: 2010-12-01
Posts: 1,463

Re: Hello again!

... talkin' 'bout "systemd-free",  for some newer Users it means nothing, and for others it's old news, and yet the great divide still continues:
http://www.infoworld.com/d/data-center/ … ide-248950

wink

Last edited by scjet (2014-08-26 17:50:24)

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#7 2014-08-27 01:57:12

pablokal
Administrator
From: Nijmegen, Holland
Registered: 2010-10-12
Posts: 3,609
Website

Re: Hello again!

Nice article. He links opposition to systemd with the original Unix mentality.
But the Unix way of thinking was much influenced by the giants that started programming like Edsger Dijkstra:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edsger_dijkstra
You can get familiar with his work here: http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/
I saw a Dutch documentary about his work and immediate was convinced how important his line of thinking is.
In this documentary he tells that he gives a lecture in Paris for scientists that are very enthusiast about his work. The next day he gives the same lecture for a software company in Brussels and the talk totally falls flat. The management dislikes his ideas because  they earn the bulk of their money with maintenance contracts (so they have no  interest in faultless programs, that don't have to be maintained) and the programmers don't like it what he proposes  as elementary for good software: clarity and  simplicity because they like to just not get what they are doing better than being bored by simplicity.
What he hopes to accomplish with his students that they write clean and simple code that is nowhere unnecessary complicated.

From ewd 340:

The competent programmer is fully aware of the strictly limited size of his own skull; therefore he approaches the programming task in full humility, and among other things he avoids clever tricks like the plague. In the case of a well-known conversational programming language I have been told from various sides that as soon as a programming community is equipped with a terminal for it, a specific phenomenon occurs that even has a well-established name: it is called “the one-liners”. It takes one of two different forms: one programmer places a one-line program on the desk of another and either he proudly tells what it does and adds the question “Can you code this in less symbols?” —as if this were of any conceptual relevance!— or he just asks “Guess what it does!”. From this observation we must conclude that this language as a tool is an open invitation for clever tricks; and while exactly this may be the explanation for some of its appeal, viz. to those who like to show how clever they are, I am sorry, but I must regard this as one of the most damning things that can be said about a programming language.

http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/tran … WD340.html Very interesting stuff to read!!


Getting your questions answered here at ArchBang Forums
Please! Always give hardware info, if there is a chance that 's relevant: #lspci -vnn
On Arch(bang) and Openbox: http://stillstup.blogspot.com/

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#8 2014-08-27 03:01:30

smil3y
Member
From: Bulgaria
Registered: 2012-09-13
Posts: 176
Website

Re: Hello again!

scjet wrote:

... talkin' 'bout "systemd-free",  for some newer Users it means nothing, and for others it's old news, and yet the great divide still continues:
http://www.infoworld.com/d/data-center/ … ide-248950

wink

Indeed, I doubt it will stop anytime soon. The way I see it the talks and rants
will not stop untill systemd changes their goals and first that comes to mind is
portability (BSD anyone?) or someone makes and alternative to it that is
acceptable (the OpenBSD folks are going for it).

And I somewhat agree on Mike Gancarz sum up on the Unix philosophy.

pablokal wrote:

The next day he gives the same lecture for a software company in Brussels and the talk totally falls flat. The management dislikes his ideas because  they earn the bulk of their money with maintenance contracts (so they have no  interest in faultless programs, that don't have to be maintained) and the programmers don't like it what he proposes  as elementary for good software: clarity and  simplicity because they like to just not get what they are doing better than being bored by simplicity.

I think that this is the right way - people paid to work on software should go for the
kernel and other big project while the comunity works on the shiny new user-space
program (or something along those lines). See xfdashboard. It is a project
maintained by a volunteer that will make users who like Gnome 3 but can't run
it (old hardware, the distribution does not support, something else) happy. The way
I see it many good ideas are born in that comunity we have around GNU/Linux and
BSD and not much of them are being done by companies. When companies get
in the way into software flow things start to get a little bit wonky.


GNU/Linux does not stop you from doing stupid things, because that would also stop you from doing clever things.

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#9 2014-08-27 07:43:59

oliver
Administrator
Registered: 2010-11-04
Posts: 2,209

Re: Hello again!

The point the author fails to mention though is that Solaris moved away from the old init system to SMF 4 or 5 years ago now and systemd is clearly modeled on the same ideas.

I would think that Solaris would be considered on 'old unix' system and I can't believe there are many installations out there not using SMF now.

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#10 2014-08-27 08:02:24

scjet
Member
From: Canada
Registered: 2010-12-01
Posts: 1,463

Re: Hello again!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service_Ma … t_Facility
Yes, systemd was definitely NOT a new idea at all, SMF was already well-implemented into Solaris10, and that was over 10 years ago.

But remeber, this was designed for ONE NetOS(Solaris), and NOT varied "Distributions", like Linux.

...and comparing the way SMF was carefully quality designed into Solaris, then and now versus, (Pid 1) systemd,
is like comparing a Diamond, to a piece of Dogdoo.

Last edited by scjet (2014-08-27 08:20:06)

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#11 2014-08-27 08:49:40

oliver
Administrator
Registered: 2010-11-04
Posts: 2,209

Re: Hello again!

scjet wrote:

...and comparing the way SMF was carefully quality designed into Solaris, then and now versus, (Pid 1) systemd,
is like comparing a Diamond, to a piece of Dogdoo.

The basic concept is identical though

No more /etc/rc2.d/S99whatever but SMF files that depend on events and respawn when they die etc (although SMF isn't anywhere near as all-encompassing as systemd)

Just saying that the authors point of "old UNIX as a philosophy" may remain admirable but hasn't been a reality for a long time.

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#12 2014-08-27 20:03:13

scjet
Member
From: Canada
Registered: 2010-12-01
Posts: 1,463

Re: Hello again!

The other advantage I remeber  with Solaris's SMF implementation is that you could also run inet/rc's along with SMF. We used SMF for all the basic server system/startups like sshd, ...., but we would run apache/tomcat server scripts as an /etc/rc..., because it was simpler and easier to log, maintain, .... which is why, as you said, SMF wasn't as "all-encompassing" as systemd,  but instead, SMF offered the best/choice of both worlds....
Alas, they just don't build things like they used to anymore. but then again, it's not really fair to compare PC-scrap, versus well-built Sun's.
wink

Last edited by scjet (2014-08-27 20:04:49)

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#13 2014-08-28 08:02:42

oliver
Administrator
Registered: 2010-11-04
Posts: 2,209

Re: Hello again!

scjet wrote:

The other advantage I remeber  with Solaris's SMF implementation is that you could also run inet/rc's along with SMF.

That is true, but you could always write a systemd service file to execute everything in /etc/rc.d/init.d to mimic that behaviour :-)

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#14 2014-08-28 09:24:46

scjet
Member
From: Canada
Registered: 2010-12-01
Posts: 1,463

Re: Hello again!

Well, as an fyi, it finally looks like Manjaro got there systemd-free/OpenRC iso up n runnin'
https://forum.manjaro.org/index.php?top … #msg145534

However, it's based on a their Net-install iso, and you build your own DE/WM... so it's still a bit of work, but... nice.
Long-term of course, may be a different story.

Last edited by scjet (2014-08-28 09:25:59)

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#15 2014-08-28 12:51:17

xtremyst
Member
Registered: 2011-11-21
Posts: 331

Re: Hello again!

Looks nice, I just installed it on virtualbox and set it up with openbox. I don't have a lot of experience with open-rc and I think
that this ISO can teach a few things to users like me,  before attempting a clean arch-openrc installation...

Last edited by xtremyst (2014-08-28 13:07:53)

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