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#1 2014-06-02 22:40:20

gothmog123
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From: Budapest, Hungary
Registered: 2011-05-22
Posts: 44

systemd hate thread

I bought an acer chromebook and systemd kept crashing and freezing the whole system. Installed openrc and everything is OK.

Bottom line systemd couldn't handle some daemons crashing. WTF?

Systemd, what a piece of cr$@.

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#2 2014-06-04 13:16:35

oliver
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Registered: 2010-11-04
Posts: 2,209

Re: systemd hate thread

sorry you had problems - don't let systemd get you down though.  Life's too short.

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#3 2015-07-22 04:08:01

eric
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Registered: 2015-07-10
Posts: 239
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Re: systemd hate thread

hello,

i don't understand the choice of Archlinux creator.

they have modified the archiso package to must use systemd for the boot process. so create an iso with nosystemd it's impossible to this new version.

where is passed the philosophy of Archlinux?do what I want the way I want. it's seem to become like ubuntu and other stuff.

really i don't understand. the day of systemd control our package manager is the day of the Archlinux's (linux too) death.


Obarun : free to control your system

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#4 2015-07-24 13:03:51

pablokal
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From: Nijmegen, Holland
Registered: 2010-10-12
Posts: 3,627
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Re: systemd hate thread

I saw it coming. The arch devs are not open-minded and quite dictatorial. Systemd  seems to be a way to get rid of all opposition and critical thinkers.


Getting your questions answered here at ArchBang Forums
Please! Always give hardware info, if there is a chance that 's relevant: #lspci -vnn
On Arch(bang) and Openbox: http://stillstup.blogspot.com/

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#5 2015-07-25 04:01:52

eric
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Registered: 2015-07-10
Posts: 239
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Re: systemd hate thread

i go to create obarun with lfs, i thinking about it from a few time ago. keeping pacman because it's a beautifull tool.
it isn't possible for the moment because i don't have the time, but it's the only way to preserved a linux philosophy.

Systemd isn't in this way, we need to offer an alternative. Some people don't want to use systemd but it's more and more complicated to use linux without it and any distro offers an another solution( a mean in simplicity)
so take a paper, a pen and let's go smile

void-linux could have been a solution, but it's take a same way to other distro.their init start udev-systemd.

i hope some developper go to open their eyes.....


Obarun : free to control your system

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#6 2015-07-25 06:04:53

pablokal
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From: Nijmegen, Holland
Registered: 2010-10-12
Posts: 3,627
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Re: systemd hate thread

Are you sure ? Have to check that . I thought their runit didn't use any systemd components. You can use systemd but don;t have to use it.


Getting your questions answered here at ArchBang Forums
Please! Always give hardware info, if there is a chance that 's relevant: #lspci -vnn
On Arch(bang) and Openbox: http://stillstup.blogspot.com/

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#7 2015-07-25 07:21:29

replabrobin
Member
Registered: 2011-11-06
Posts: 86

Re: systemd hate thread

I seem to remember that systemd was present in the void-linux startup somewhere. I know I had to create a special mkinitcpio-nosystemd for arch to eliminate all traces of systemd. Perhaps void still uses udev.

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#8 2015-07-25 17:05:28

ncmprhnsbl
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From: australia
Registered: 2012-12-11
Posts: 114
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Re: systemd hate thread

void uses eudev.
current state of systemd support in void seems to be covered here:
https://github.com/voidlinux/void-packages/issues/1736

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#9 2015-07-25 22:23:14

eric
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Registered: 2015-07-10
Posts: 239
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Re: systemd hate thread

this is the file 02-udev.sh of void-runit package

[ -n "$VIRTUALIZATION" ] && return 0

if [ -x /usr/lib/systemd/systemd-udevd ]; then
    _udevd=/usr/lib/systemd/systemd-udevd
elif [ -x /sbin/udevd -o -x /bin/udevd ]; then
    _udevd=udevd
else
    msg_warn "cannot find udevd!"
fi

so first choice systemd-udevd.
well why implemented it if his distro don't use it?
but certainly a make a mistake, i don't use void and i don't known how to work exactly
apparently he rebuild all the package without systemd, so it's a good news


Obarun : free to control your system

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#10 2015-07-26 00:03:15

Mr Green
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Registered: 2010-11-07
Posts: 6,896

Re: systemd hate thread

We built an ISO based on void but void developer got very unhappy. You are of course free too use it.


Comments, suggestions, donations please feel free to contact me mrgreen(at)archbang(dot)org Artix information https://artix-linux.github.io/migrate/

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#11 2015-07-26 07:06:35

oliver
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Registered: 2010-11-04
Posts: 2,209

Re: systemd hate thread

eric wrote:

so first choice systemd-udevd.
well why implemented it if his distro don't use it?
but certainly a make a mistake, i don't use void and i don't known how to work exactly
apparently he rebuild all the package without systemd, so it's a good news

If I remember correctly, systemd was in the Void repo to be installed as a choice of the user but no-one wanted to maintain it.  Since then it's slowly but surely disappearing.

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#12 2015-08-02 03:22:00

eric
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Registered: 2015-07-10
Posts: 239
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Re: systemd hate thread

libgudev : https://download.gnome.org/sources/libg … v-230.news

Bump version number so the package will supercede any gudev
          sub-packages provided via systemd. We intend to drop gudev from
          systemd-221, but lets be safe and just bump it to 230 now.

so what's the solution now??
linux become a no-choose system sad

Last edited by eric (2015-08-02 03:22:18)


Obarun : free to control your system

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#13 2015-08-02 15:53:21

pablokal
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From: Nijmegen, Holland
Registered: 2010-10-12
Posts: 3,627
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Re: systemd hate thread

Gnome isn't linux; it a part of Linux and there will be fixes or escape routes


Getting your questions answered here at ArchBang Forums
Please! Always give hardware info, if there is a chance that 's relevant: #lspci -vnn
On Arch(bang) and Openbox: http://stillstup.blogspot.com/

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#14 2015-08-02 21:56:58

eric
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Registered: 2015-07-10
Posts: 239
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Re: systemd hate thread

pablokal wrote:

Gnome isn't linux; it a part of Linux and there will be fixes or escape routes

yes you're right, it's a part linux, but it's a BIG part. i hope there will be fixes  because change gnome in a graphical environment it will be very difficult


Obarun : free to control your system

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#15 2015-08-03 09:21:20

Mr Green
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Registered: 2010-11-07
Posts: 6,896

Re: systemd hate thread

Not really we can always switch too QT wink


Comments, suggestions, donations please feel free to contact me mrgreen(at)archbang(dot)org Artix information https://artix-linux.github.io/migrate/

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#16 2015-08-03 10:46:35

eric
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Registered: 2015-07-10
Posts: 239
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Re: systemd hate thread

mrgreen wrote:

Not really we can always switch too QT

qt5base need libinput, so....
be careful with this package in the future....


Obarun : free to control your system

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#17 2015-08-18 19:40:24

shevy
Member
Registered: 2015-08-18
Posts: 1

Re: systemd hate thread

The problem is not just systemd or Poettering, or removing choice.

The problem is that Red Hat has become the new microsoft, under guise of "open source saves cancer".

Go to #kde and then tell me how many of the main devs there work for Red hat - the answer will be
quite surprising. They haven't merely just infiltrated gnome, they leak over into all the distributions
unisono - debian also jumped to the systemd commercialization route.

It's a problem when you have devs who are driving the commercialization of linux. Nothing wrong
with profit per se but here we also see the theft of options at the same time - so much for "free
choice".

Unfortunately there are also not many alternatives - you can keep on using shell scripts for the
boot process, but systemd has taken over the linux distributions as the init 1 process. More
dependencies will be inter-connected.

The last obstacle that they'll have to overcome is linus. You already saw Poettering's attack
against him - they want him gone.

Systemd a cancer that will grow. But the cancer has not been started by systemd, it was
started by Red Hat.

Last edited by shevy (2015-08-18 19:44:00)

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#18 2015-08-19 03:14:52

pablokal
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From: Nijmegen, Holland
Registered: 2010-10-12
Posts: 3,627
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Re: systemd hate thread

Hi Shevy, thanks for your contribution.  I agree with your analysis but I think there is even more behind this. Red Hat being such a big player, you will have to think who are behind them.
I think the secret services  of diverse (Western) countries are very much interested in everything that might be open source or an alternative for the software they control.
I see systemd as the trojan horse that comes from them, from their side as it makes everything less controllable and less insightful. There will be a spot for unwanted hacking.
IgnorantGuru developing spacefm  (and working with encryption) also got convinced such a scheme is behind all this.


Getting your questions answered here at ArchBang Forums
Please! Always give hardware info, if there is a chance that 's relevant: #lspci -vnn
On Arch(bang) and Openbox: http://stillstup.blogspot.com/

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#19 2015-08-27 01:31:51

eric
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Registered: 2015-07-10
Posts: 239
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Re: systemd hate thread

pablokal wrote:

Hi Shevy, thanks for your contribution.  I agree with your analysis but I think there is even more behind this. Red Hat being such a big player, you will have to think who are behind them.
I think the secret services  of diverse (Western) countries are very much interested in everything that might be open source or an alternative for the software they control.
I see systemd as the trojan horse that comes from them, from their side as it makes everything less controllable and less insightful. There will be a spot for unwanted hacking.
IgnorantGuru developing spacefm  (and working with encryption) also got convinced such a scheme is behind all this.

well said!!!

this is exactly what i think. if linux becomes unpopular, systemd doesn't exist anymore. it's the croissant populary of linux that encouraged secret services to make a control on it. but WE CAN FIGHT.
99% of the people are under control of 1% of the population.
if people doesn't buy Coca-cola, coca-cola fail. it's very simple. the group make the force. WE CAN FIGHT, each in its own way. For me it's to provide an alternative to secret services systemd control.

Last edited by eric (2015-08-27 02:04:42)


Obarun : free to control your system

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#20 2015-08-30 02:17:51

replabrobin
Member
Registered: 2011-11-06
Posts: 86

Re: systemd hate thread

Apparently systemd has added some kind of su functionality the extending continues .......

I like this quote taken from the /. thread

You know you have achieved perfection in design, not when you have nothing more to add, but when you have nothing more to take away.
-- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

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#21 2015-08-30 07:06:44

Mr Green
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Registered: 2010-11-07
Posts: 6,896

Re: systemd hate thread

machinectl ? a wrapper for su possibly... most users are aware of using sudo. Only time I use su is if I am just setting up or testing a system.


Comments, suggestions, donations please feel free to contact me mrgreen(at)archbang(dot)org Artix information https://artix-linux.github.io/migrate/

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#22 2015-08-31 21:04:40

eric
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Registered: 2015-07-10
Posts: 239
Website

Re: systemd hate thread

machinectl has a really clear goal, take a control of the machine with root privilege by systemd. so open a port , become root and make what do it want on the machine.
But not a problem, systemd is a beautiful prog. why do you want to leave it??? Really i don't understand your reason!!! lol.

about LP on /.thread
"He is just a hobbyist, not a hardened sys admin with years of experience"
i suppose his check from Red hat is so big. but don't worry, this guys work for a free community!!! lol


Obarun : free to control your system

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#23 2015-09-01 01:25:25

harv
Member
Registered: 2012-12-04
Posts: 52

Re: systemd hate thread

I don't know and I don't get it.
Aside from the three letter agencies getting their fingers in, systemd complicates things that used to be simple- at least for me anyway- and the less dependencies any package had the better which seems diametrically opposed to what the systemd devs think.
And with systemd assimilating distros left and right I'm not sure its a battle that can be won.

So, much as Arch in general and ArchBang in particular remind me of my old easy chair in the corner- nothing more comfortable- I am moving to Slackware or more specifically one of its derivatives(Vectorlinux- haven't been in a masochistic enough mood to do a straight Slackware install) in the short term and OpenBSD when I get more comfortable with it.

Eric, your work looks very interesting and I'm sure will be appreciated by many over time.
I know what ever Mr. Green puts out will be a shining jewel compared to others but I think that eventually it will take more effort than what it is worth to dig systemd's tentacles out of linux internals- especially if they get into the kernel which I'm sure systemd devs have plans for.

I'll be around for a bit yet because leaving ArchBang seems harder than getting out of that easy chair but it will happen.

Best of luck to you Eric.
Thanks for all the hard work and dedication Mr. Green and also Pablocal and Oliver and any other members of the team I missed.

harv

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#24 2015-09-17 01:00:39

eric
Member
Registered: 2015-07-10
Posts: 239
Website

Re: systemd hate thread

According to this article : http://archive09.linux.com/feed/61302
and with this particular phrase

“When we rolled into Baghdad, we did it using open source,” General Justice continued. “It may come as a surprise to many of you, but the U.S. Army is “the” single largest install base for Red Hat Linux. I'm their largest customer.”

which provides the bulk of money?

Well follow the money

systemd provides by red hat provides by ..... US Army

So ...... your turn to judge

Last edited by eric (2015-09-17 01:01:23)


Obarun : free to control your system

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#25 2015-09-17 01:19:32

Mr Green
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Registered: 2010-11-07
Posts: 6,896

Re: systemd hate thread

One would assume that Open Source meant just that, anyone is free to use it including the military..... Might be taking systemds role in global thermonuclear war a bit too far. We (users) still have a choice of what we run. My own thoughts are switch.

Think hate is a very strong word prefer dislike or annoying.

Pulling systemd from Arch is a losing battle, even gummiboot is now systemd-boot.

I am an Arch user and therefore I use systemd (though I am trying to get runit working under it!)


Comments, suggestions, donations please feel free to contact me mrgreen(at)archbang(dot)org Artix information https://artix-linux.github.io/migrate/

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