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#1 2012-10-02 10:40:52

gothmog123
Member
From: Budapest, Hungary
Registered: 2011-05-22
Posts: 44

best non-systemd distro? archbang status?

So which are the distros that have expressed the strongest opinions against systemd and we can be sure will never switch to it? Slack? Which are recommended among them for an intermediate user?

I know AB will take the lead but what is there to try until the dust settles in Arch land? Distros based on Slackware? Zenwalk, Salix ISOs are not very up to date...

I know there was discussion on this so feel free to delete if redundant.

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#2 2012-10-02 12:59:12

pablokal
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From: Nijmegen, Holland
Registered: 2010-10-12
Posts: 3,633
Website

Re: best non-systemd distro? archbang status?

If you read the diverse threads you can conclude some details about different distro's; it feels superfluous to repeat those details.
And don't forget the field is changing and what may possible today , maybe very difficult tomorrow.


Getting your questions answered here at ArchBang Forums
Please! Always give hardware info, if there is a chance that 's relevant: #lspci -vnn
On Arch(bang) and Openbox: http://stillstup.blogspot.com/

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#3 2012-10-03 04:31:46

handy
Member
Registered: 2011-11-03
Posts: 505

Re: best non-systemd distro? archbang status?

ackt1c wrote:

it seems like people don't like systemd because it doesn't have color responses...

Finally someone has put their finger on it...

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#4 2012-10-03 04:52:41

Mr Green
Administrator
Registered: 2010-11-07
Posts: 6,920

Re: best non-systemd distro? archbang status?

Arch Linux...


Comments, suggestions please feel free to contact me mrgreen(at)archbang(dot)org

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#5 2012-10-03 06:34:01

handy
Member
Registered: 2011-11-03
Posts: 505

Re: best non-systemd distro? archbang status?

Mr Green wrote:

Arch Linux...

That's the truth.

Due to the way Linux is going I'm seriously thinking about going back to PC-BSD / Openbox, where I expect to find a great deal more stability in the development process.

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#6 2012-10-03 09:12:42

Mr Green
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Registered: 2010-11-07
Posts: 6,920

Re: best non-systemd distro? archbang status?

Systemd has been talked about enough on forums. As of this moment arch install media uses initscripts no new media has been released [although its just a matter of time]. Having a stable system sucks! that must be why I run Arch smile

'If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much room'


Comments, suggestions please feel free to contact me mrgreen(at)archbang(dot)org

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#7 2012-10-03 16:43:10

handy
Member
Registered: 2011-11-03
Posts: 505

Re: best non-systemd distro? archbang status?

My meaning of stable, relates to core changes that are considered questionable by a relevant percentage of users that have such changes foisted upon them.

I love Arch, that's why I used it (on two machines) for ~4.5 years. smile But I want to control my own system, not have the ease of that removed by a monolith from a monopoly. (Hopefully it won't come to that, I just couldn't resist the alliteration. big_smile)

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#8 2012-10-04 02:34:52

pablokal
Administrator
From: Nijmegen, Holland
Registered: 2010-10-12
Posts: 3,633
Website

Re: best non-systemd distro? archbang status?

it seems like people don't like systemd because it doesn't have color responses...]

The way the innkeeper thinks, is the way he trusts his guests, is a Dutch proverb. and fully applies to above remark.
I never gave much about coloured terminal output ( I don't have it) or other bling-bling; if you would know what I wrote in the past years here, you would know for me, this is utterly irrelevant to this discussion.
And I don't like this kind of presumptions, even when said jokingly.
They are a twisted way of influencing way a discussion; you saw that happening a lot on the Crunchbang forums, that was a nice place to be before people began to create an in group  atmosphere ( we are OK and not silly/daft/..  as are our opponents) with this sort of presumptions on other peoples motives.

If you would have said:
For me btw I really am sorry that I miss the nice colour output of terminal when booting
then it is a different matter.


Getting your questions answered here at ArchBang Forums
Please! Always give hardware info, if there is a chance that 's relevant: #lspci -vnn
On Arch(bang) and Openbox: http://stillstup.blogspot.com/

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#9 2012-10-05 08:16:18

gothmog123
Member
From: Budapest, Hungary
Registered: 2011-05-22
Posts: 44

Re: best non-systemd distro? archbang status?

btw I think I will stay on AB even with systemd, it's that good a distro.

was just curious.  sorry to be redundant.


I saw absolute linux and vector as pretty interesting slack distros. anyone know anything about them? are they like AB in that you get a real slack system (good), or like sabayon that gives you a fork (bad... kind of)?

Last edited by gothmog123 (2012-10-05 08:17:24)

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#10 2012-10-05 10:49:35

Mr Green
Administrator
Registered: 2010-11-07
Posts: 6,920

Re: best non-systemd distro? archbang status?

was just curious.  sorry to be redundant.

My own personal view is that Arch should stay as it was meant to be, left down to the user to configure it how they want. Am running systemd at the moment and do not have a problem with it. Sure booting in 3 seconds is all well and good but it does not make any difference to normal running of the desktop.

If I had the time and energy I would fork Arch into OpenArch a distro that had all the original values of Arch Linux


Comments, suggestions please feel free to contact me mrgreen(at)archbang(dot)org

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#11 2012-10-05 11:30:35

gothmog123
Member
From: Budapest, Hungary
Registered: 2011-05-22
Posts: 44

Re: best non-systemd distro? archbang status?

I'm using systemd too. It's not that bad, I'm just scared about somethings the experts including you have said here.

Like sometimes we don't know what's going on, like in Chromium which is an open source app but connects to google plus automagically which is outragous.

Last edited by gothmog123 (2012-10-05 11:31:35)

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#12 2012-10-05 19:20:17

chris2kari
Member
Registered: 2012-07-10
Posts: 31

Re: best non-systemd distro? archbang status?

gothmog123 wrote:

So which are the distros that have expressed the strongest opinions against systemd and we can be sure will never switch to it? Slack? Which are recommended among them for an intermediate user?

I've been researching this also. This is my anecdotal opinion (correct me if I'm wrong) :

Slackware - Classical BSD style init scripts. Opposed to systemd. Not rolling release. Releases occur after very long periods of 'testing' (think 18 months). Very basic install, everything left up to you. No dependency management. If you want up to date applications beyond the basics provided in their small repo's then you must hunt down all dependencies & compile it yourself. Everything needed to compile is provided. There are derivatives that make life easier/save time. A minimalist distro that can be stable & fast if you have the time to invest.

Gentoo - Uses it's own OpenRC init system. Has stated will not even consider to go to systemd for at least several years. Rolling Release. Labor intensive from scratch install. Rolling release. Source based distro using a BSD style 'ports' system. Can be quite complex to understand to a newcomer. Can also use it as a binary distro. Has up to date core system combined with quite large repo's of up to date applications binaries although not quite as fresh or comprehensive as Arch.  Everything needed to compile is provided. There are derivatives that make life easier/save time. A minimalist distro that can be stable & fast if you have the time to invest.

Debian - Classical SysV unix style init system but can be configured to use 'upstart'. Not rolling release. Releases occur after very long periods of 'testing'. Core software lags but changing to their testing branch yields moderately up to date libraies. Huge repo's of out of date applications software. Using the 'testing' branch brings you moderately up to date applications. Pure Debain is pretty basic and minimalist but there are many _MANY_ derivatives that put a lot of polish on this old girl.

Arch - Rolling Release. Arguably the most up to date applications repo's & core libraries you will find in _ANY_ distro. Unfortunately a horribly labor intensive installer a'la gentoo. This seems to be a deliberate design decision to keep new users out of their little playground (hence why many of us choose Archbang instead). Was beautifully simple to administer but has capitulated to Redhat/Fedora in switching to their extremely complex systemd method. New derivatives are starting to appear (Cinnarch) but all follow their upstream in using systemd sad

BSD? - PC-BSD is a user friendly version of Free BSD. Not Rolling Release. BSD kernels always lag behind Linux Kernel in having less driver support than Linux but said to be steadily improving. Stable system using conventional unix style init system with no plans to make sudden system borking changes. Has a ports system for managing software installation combined with its modern Mac like 'pbi' installers. Applications software versions seems to lag Linux versions (not sure).

Stick with AB & hang on for the ride?
I don't know really...

Chris

Last edited by chris2kari (2012-10-05 19:26:27)

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#13 2012-10-05 19:49:16

chris2kari
Member
Registered: 2012-07-10
Posts: 31

Re: best non-systemd distro? archbang status?

Mr Green wrote:

My own personal view is that Arch should stay as it was meant to be, left down to the user to configure it how they want. Am running systemd at the moment and do not have a problem with it. Sure booting in 3 seconds is all well and good but it does not make any difference to normal running of the desktop.

Agreed.

Mr Green wrote:

If I had the time and energy I would fork Arch into OpenArch a distro that had all the original values of Arch Linux

I'd like to see that.
Despite the 730 known Linux distro's (320 still active) very few of them have done anything new or innovative.

Looking at it from an desktop end user perspective what is needed:
- Latest up to date drivers (we have that in the kernel)
- Latest up to date core system
- Latest up to date applications software
- Straightforward/simple to administer
- An end to dependencany hell once and for all by stipulating a core set of system libraries that cannot be altered combined with a sane method of allowing optional libraries to be installed by applications for their particular use. The onus should be placed sqaurely back on the shoulders of application developers to ensure their code will run on this standard base instead of the present idea of developer anarchy.

If you have time take a look at the (defunct) Pardus distro. They hammered out a really nice installer and created a new package manager that makes it easier for END USERS to package up software. Imagine how fast a distro could grow when the end users can contribute latest up to date packages themselves with ease?

I'm only really new to linux so I am looking at it from the point of view of an outsider - I have'nt yet become an insider and developed the group think..
pass the kool aide?

Chris

Last edited by chris2kari (2012-10-05 19:56:19)

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#14 2012-10-05 20:08:15

chris2kari
Member
Registered: 2012-07-10
Posts: 31

Re: best non-systemd distro? archbang status?

gothmog123 wrote:

btw I saw absolute linux and vector as pretty interesting slack distros. anyone know anything about them? are they like AB in that you get a real slack system (good), or like sabayon that gives you a fork (bad... kind of)?

Absolute - 100% Slackware compatible. New distro trying to improve the SW experience. Compiled for i686 which is an improvement on Slackwares i486 (can you believe it). Uses it's own small repo's. Very small user base..
Vector - not so much. Old distro that does not really live up to its claims anymore IMHO, YMMV.

Chris

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#15 2012-10-06 01:19:52

handy
Member
Registered: 2011-11-03
Posts: 505

Re: best non-systemd distro? archbang status?

I've just got my PC-BSD Xfce install pretty well polished up. I much preferred installing & setting it up (went with both Xfce & Openbox), to setting up either Fedora or Sabayon CoreCDX (I find that Arch is somehow more enjoyable than those two also for some strange reason, as the PC-BSD install is nothing like that of Arch?).

There are currently 23,943 ports available. Not all the packages that are available for Linux exist for FreeBSD. I'm sure that most of those that do exist for both systems are older than the versions you get when using Arch & other distros that offer upgrades often.

Though I just had a look & its running Firefox 15.0.1, the same as is on the Fedora 17. box & Leafpad 0.8.18,1 as in Fedora, but VLC is 1.1.13 as opposed to 2.0.3 in Fedora, movies look equally as good in both though. smile

Accessing my ReadyNAS Duo via NFS was even simpler than doing it via Linux: add much the same lines to the fstab & add one line to rc.conf. That's how I like it. smile

I have Firefox setup with all the add-ons I like; I can feed a DVD into the optical drive & watch a movie; I transferred my Worker config file over to the PC-BSD box & modified it to suit; geegie; epdfviewer; leafpad; terminator; mtpaint; vlc; smplayer; orage & whatever else I use are all available. The only things missing for me, are lmsensors, powertop & hwd.

I haven't got around to setting up conky, but it will work, which will be nice, as my systemd conversion in Arch caused my conky scripts to fail. (There was probably a work around but I didn't get around to looking for it.)

I still have to clean up the Xfce menu & I've got some to do on the Openbox side, such as setup Tint2; sort out the OB menu; & whatever else todays work on the Xfce side didn't cover, I'll just as likely dump Xfce in the future, time will tell.

I'll play around with PC-BSD for a bit to be sure it isn't hiding a problem from me, if it is as good as I think it is, I'll put it on my main machine. It may not be on the cutting edge, but the way that BSD is managed by the FreeBSD Core Team:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FreeBSD_Core_Team

I don't expect to have to go through too many of the system core shake-ups that so many distros (Arch in particular I think due to its rolling release cutting edge nature) have been & will continue to be going through for however long it takes, unfortunately.

We are lucky to have so many choices. smile

Last edited by handy (2012-10-06 01:27:39)

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#16 2012-10-06 03:46:30

chris2kari
Member
Registered: 2012-07-10
Posts: 31

Re: best non-systemd distro? archbang status?

handy wrote:

Though I just had a look & its running Firefox 15.0.1, the same as is on the Fedora 17. box & Leafpad 0.8.18,1 as in Fedora, but VLC is 1.1.13 as opposed to 2.0.3 in Fedora, movies look equally as good in both though. smile
We are lucky to have so many choices. smile

Yes we are fortunate..
Latest VLC 2.0.3 is in the FreeBSD ports (http://cvsweb.freebsd.org/ports/multimedia/vlc)
As is latest ver 22  of Chromium web browser (http://cvsweb.freebsd.org/ports/www/chromium)
etc..

Not too shabby smile

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#17 2012-10-06 04:17:07

zukrut
Member
Registered: 2012-09-11
Posts: 7

Re: best non-systemd distro? archbang status?

chris2kari wrote:

Slackware - Classical BSD style init scripts. Opposed to systemd. Not rolling release. Releases occur after very long periods of 'testing' (think 18 months). Very basic install, everything left up to you. No dependency management. If you want up to date applications beyond the basics provided in their small repo's then you must hunt down all dependencies & compile it yourself. Everything needed to compile is provided. There are derivatives that make life easier/save time. A minimalist distro that can be stable & fast if you have the time to invest.

Debian - Classical SysV unix style init system but can be configured to use 'upstart'. Not rolling release. Releases occur after very long periods of 'testing'. Core software lags but changing to their testing branch yields moderately up to date libraies. Huge repo's of out of date applications software. Using the 'testing' branch brings you moderately up to date applications. Pure Debain is pretty basic and minimalist but there are many _MANY_ derivatives that put a lot of polish on this old girl.

BSD? - PC-BSD is a user friendly version of Free BSD. Not Rolling Release. BSD kernels always lag behind Linux Kernel in having less driver support than Linux but said to be steadily improving. Stable system using conventional unix style init system with no plans to make sudden system borking changes. Has a ports system for managing software installation combined with its modern Mac like 'pbi' installers. Applications software versions seems to lag Linux versions (not sure).

Chris

Slackware has an addon package manager with dependencies, slap-get (command line) and gslapt (GUI).

You can install it with:

x86:

# wget -nv http://software.jaos.org/slackpacks/14.0/slapt-get/slapt-get-0.10.2o-i386-1.tgz
# installpkg slapt-get-0.10.2o-i386-1.tgz
# wget -nv http://software.jaos.org/slackpacks/14.0/gslapt/gslapt-0.5.3h-i386-1.tgz
# installpkg gslapt-0.5.3h-i386-1.tgz

x86_64:

# wget -nv http://software.jaos.org/slackpacks/14.0-x86_64/slapt-get/slapt-get-0.10.2o-x86_64-1.tgz
# installpkg slapt-get-0.10.2o-x86_64-1.tgz
# wget -nv http://software.jaos.org/slackpacks/14.0-x86_64/gslapt/gslapt-0.5.3h-x86_64-1.tgz
# installpkg gslapt-0.5.3h-x86_64-1.tgz

Debian: I am testing Debian SID on one laptop. Isn't it rolling (kind of) ?

BSD

The eternal compilation of ports puts me off.
there is a new utility called "pkgng" that should ease the matter, but still in testing.

My 2cents,

Zukrut

PS: in Slackware, in /etc/slapt-get/slapt-getrc, you should uncomment the line:

SOURCE=ftp://ftp.slackware.com/pub/slackware/slackware-14.0/extra/:PREFERRED

Last edited by zukrut (2012-10-06 04:22:09)

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#18 2012-10-06 04:22:02

gothmog123
Member
From: Budapest, Hungary
Registered: 2011-05-22
Posts: 44

Re: best non-systemd distro? archbang status?

Chris you rule - you just answered most of my questions.

You said gentoo has said it will not switch 'for a few years'. Does that mean on the long term it is inevitable that everyone has to switch? Might as well do it now then.

Did i understand your post correctly, debian wont switch for a few years either or will they

sorry if this is basic stuff that everyone else knows lol

Last edited by gothmog123 (2012-10-06 04:23:34)

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#19 2012-10-06 05:29:52

chris2kari
Member
Registered: 2012-07-10
Posts: 31

Re: best non-systemd distro? archbang status?

gothmog123 wrote:

Chris you rule - you just answered most of my questions.

You're welcome. Many thanks to corrections & addittional info from zukrut & other posters.

gothmog123 wrote:

You said gentoo has said it will not switch 'for a few years'.

The Gentoo board have stated that they do not need to make a decision for several years.

gothmog123 wrote:

Does that mean on the long term it is inevitable that everyone has to switch?

Nobody has to switch. Its a new software. The older system worked fine. The promoters of systemd believe their new system is better. The big 'enterprise' distro's adopted it, all the derivative distro's of these enterprise distro's more or less are compelled to follow their upstream or do _A_LOT_ of work to try to avoid using it. Independant distro's do not have a gun to their heads to also follow suit. The decision by Arch dev's was ..um.. controversial.. :-/

I am not a developer but as I understand it Gnome will more or less make systemd a dependancy in future releases thereby forcing its use eventually (corrections please).

gothmog123 wrote:

Did i understand your post correctly, debian wont switch for a few years either or will they

Nothing happens quickly in Debian AFAIK hehehe smile

gothmog123 wrote:

sorry if this is basic stuff that everyone else knows lol

Not at all.. I had to dig & dig to find info. Glad we can all help each other. Have a great week-end

Chris

Last edited by chris2kari (2012-10-06 05:32:08)

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#20 2012-10-06 06:44:11

handy
Member
Registered: 2011-11-03
Posts: 505

Re: best non-systemd distro? archbang status?

zukrut wrote:

8<  8<  8<  8<  8<  8<

BSD

The eternal compilation of ports puts me off.
there is a new utility called "pkgng" that should ease the matter, but still in testing.

8<  8<  8<  8<  8<  8<

Fortunately PC-BSD has a growing number of binary packages available. smile

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#21 2012-10-07 00:24:17

Mr Green
Administrator
Registered: 2010-11-07
Posts: 6,920

Re: best non-systemd distro? archbang status?

You can change colour if you really want to

https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/31245

Not tried it, like the green smile


Comments, suggestions please feel free to contact me mrgreen(at)archbang(dot)org

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#22 2012-10-07 06:51:35

pablokal
Administrator
From: Nijmegen, Holland
Registered: 2010-10-12
Posts: 3,633
Website

Re: best non-systemd distro? archbang status?

i do apologize if I offended you in representation of your board.

I didn't take this personally,  so I didn't feel personally offended, but I would like this discussion to be serious and matter of fact and not relating to what for me are very superficial matters like looks ( looks can be very important, but not in this special case)


Getting your questions answered here at ArchBang Forums
Please! Always give hardware info, if there is a chance that 's relevant: #lspci -vnn
On Arch(bang) and Openbox: http://stillstup.blogspot.com/

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#23 2012-10-07 19:20:12

chris2kari
Member
Registered: 2012-07-10
Posts: 31

Re: best non-systemd distro? archbang status?

handy wrote:

Fortunately PC-BSD has a growing number of binary packages available. smile

Finally got around to it on the week-end.
Been on my list to try out since I admire the way FreeBSD/PC-BSD tackled the hard issues of dependancies.
Apple tackled it, Microsoft tackled it. Linux of course carrers on in a state of total dependancy anarchy..

I spent way too many hours trying to get all their various USB images to boot from a key.
Gave up in the end went out & bought a pack of blank DVD's...

First thing I noticed - glacial boot up speed. Lots of pregnant pauses, lot's of scary error & warning mesages.
Eventually go to the gui installer & discovered there is NO partitioning tool.. back I go to a Partedmagic stick to create the partitions.. sigh wink
Back to booted into the installer from DVD again, noticed the install asks virtually no questions, I chose Xfce desktop & launches madly into formating the partitions & copy stuff over.

This took _way_ longer than any current shipping Linux that I have tried.
At the conclusion I rebooted to the newly installed system.
I thought the thing had hung at boot time because the boot sequence stops dead for seconds and seconds here and there with a bit of activity spurts in between.

Gosh it shows it's server roots heh?.. boot times are obviously not a priority for these guys hehehe smile

Finally it grinds into a login and then the Xfce desktop (v 4.10 not to shabby!).
This was the latest PC-BSD ver 9.1 RC2. It said to have working drivers for Intel chips.
Not so. My Intel HD3000 was only usable in vesa software rendering mode.
Wifi detected and working but on closer inspection it is stubbornly connecting at the old g speeds (Why?)
Power management seems to be absent. My laptop got steadily hotter throughout with it's fans screaming at full tilt.
I poked around with the App cafe (pretty nice), had a look at Warden & the Jails together with ability to run Linux apps (very cool).

Overall very polished with a remarkably sane userland but the device support (Video/Wifi/Power) is way short of what a laptop user could tolerate so I bid PC-BSD a reluctant farewell and nuked it.

Tested on Toshiba L730 (Corei5 Quad core 2.4Ghz/4Gb Ram)

Last edited by chris2kari (2012-10-07 19:29:36)

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#24 2012-10-08 04:56:56

ArchVortex
Retired
From: Ts’elxweyeqw, Canada
Registered: 2011-04-01
Posts: 1,465

Re: best non-systemd distro? archbang status?

If you run Slackware Current mirrors then you will have the latest Slackware packages or use AlienBob's package versions.

Running

# slackpkg update
# slackpkg install-new
# slackpkg upgrade-all

will update the repo mirror you chose (just like Arch you must choose a repo mirror but in Slack's case only one mirror), show you new versions of some packages and upgrade upgradeable packages installed. Pretty simple. And yes you must manually install packages that weren't included with the install.

# installpkg foo

How difficult is that? Maybe a bit time consuming.


You have the capacity to learn from mistakes. You'll learn a lot today.
FP:E5F8 7DBA 8128 9ACB 75F7 7279 BE34 AB66 76D9 16DE
KEY ID:76D916DE
Currently running ArchBang / LFS / OpenSUSE Tumbleweed

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#25 2012-10-08 06:06:39

handy
Member
Registered: 2011-11-03
Posts: 505

Re: best non-systemd distro? archbang status?

I converted my main box over to PC-BSD today. I still have a bit of fiddling to do on both of them but they are very functional on my hardware & for my needs at the moment.

It is pretty easy to adapt to FreeBSD after having spent some time with Linux. Though I look forward to having the working knowledge that I'll have in a couple of months.

Interestingly, because the main box had 4GB of RAM (the other had 1GB) it was automatically set up on the zfs. Which is cool. Well I think that is why anyway? lol.

The way FreeBSD is going, it is making disk partitioning in the way that we have been used to more & more irrelevant. Using the GPT partition scheme, partitions have been given low overhead status. They are treated as not much more then directories.

The favored approach is to just give FreeBSD your whole drive (or preferably more if you have them so you can use some of the more worthwhile tricks that zfs has up its sleeve.

As Chris2Kari stated, it boots slower than what we're generally used to; the installation (creating the initial install on the disk) is also slower. This doesn't really bother me, usually I only boot a machine once a day. The operating speed of the system on the machine is fine.

I've one machine with an nVidia GPU, which had the proprietary drivers installed automatically. It's graphics are swift & lag free. The other in my main box, has an AMD GPU (X.org drivers) & is occasionally showing a little lag, though interestingly enough, not as badly as Fedora was on X.org?

Anyway, when I get these two machines finished to my satisfaction I can just use them & not have to be concerned about what's coming downstream next & why? I'm over that.

I was happily over distro hopping ~4.5 years ago when I found Arch. Recently I've looked at 3 different Fedora installs (to get a glimpse of what they are doing with systemd), 2 Sabayon, PC-LinuxOS, & done a pile of reading, all in an effort to find a replacement for Arch.

Unfortunately there is no rolling release with FreeBSD, but I can live without it. :)

Last edited by handy (2012-10-08 06:10:47)

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#26 2012-10-08 10:36:28

gothmog123
Member
From: Budapest, Hungary
Registered: 2011-05-22
Posts: 44

Re: best non-systemd distro? archbang status?

@ zukrut and Chris,

guys, am I missing something? trying to run slackware but even slapt-get does not have dependency handling for core packages. I just read somewhere that you're supposed to install ALL core packages (2GB) and that's it. You can't even find out the core deps. Is this correct?

Otherwise I'm liking it.

lol I'm a nub.

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#27 2012-10-08 16:08:36

marxav
Member
From: Gatineau, Qc
Registered: 2012-08-27
Posts: 43

Re: best non-systemd distro? archbang status?

@gothmog123
I did not try slapt-get but have been running Slackware for a month or two on my netbook and main desktop.  I upgraded both from 13.37 to 14 and everything went fairly well.  Actually, on my desktop, after upgrade, I bought a brand new desktop, took the hard drive from the old one, changed the BIOS setting and up it was running.  Did not even boot Windows... smile
About your question, according to http://www.slackwiki.com/Slapt-get:

slapt-get does not provide dependency resolution for packages included within the Slackware distribution. It does, however, provide a framework for dependency resolution in Slackware compatible packages

Not the fastest boot, but happy with it so far.

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#28 2012-10-08 19:10:52

chris2kari
Member
Registered: 2012-07-10
Posts: 31

Re: best non-systemd distro? archbang status?

handy wrote:

Anyway, when I get these two machines finished to my satisfaction I can just use them & not have to be concerned about what's coming downstream next & why? I'm over that.

I was happily over distro hopping ~4.5 years ago when I found Arch. Recently I've looked at 3 different Fedora installs (to get a glimpse of what they are doing with systemd), 2 Sabayon, PC-LinuxOS, & done a pile of reading, all in an effort to find a replacement for Arch.

Unfortunately there is no rolling release with FreeBSD, but I can live without it. smile

The PC-BSD dev's have stated via testing mail list that the drivers will be working very soon. Also the RC2 ISO is known to be borked & is being respun. That may account for some of the issues I noticed.

We have Mac's here also so Fee/PC-BSD feels more comfortable to me. After a few months of trying out all the Linux distro's I'm inclined to agree with you. Will be going with PC-BSD as soon as 9.1 is sorted.

Chris

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#29 2012-10-10 05:32:28

mastis
Member
From: Finland
Registered: 2011-10-02
Posts: 136

Re: best non-systemd distro? archbang status?

Can someone tell me with bullet-points why i should abandon the systemd? What are the advantages?

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#30 2012-10-10 05:58:50

chris2kari
Member
Registered: 2012-07-10
Posts: 31

Re: best non-systemd distro? archbang status?

mastis wrote:

Can someone tell me with bullet-points why i should abandon the systemd? What are the advantages?

In post #20 I said "Nobody has to switch. Its a new software. The older system worked fine. The promoters of systemd believe their new system is better. The big 'enterprise' distro's adopted it, all the derivative distro's of these enterprise distro's more or less are compelled to follow their upstream or do _A_LOT_ of work to try to avoid using it. Independant distro's do not have a gun to their heads to also follow suit."

My layman's take -

Pro's : Slightly faster boot time. More automation of service handling.

Con's : Complex. Poor debugging/recovery ability in the event of system failure.

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/systemd
http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/systemd.html

Have a nice day
Chris

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#31 2012-10-10 06:19:19

gothmog123
Member
From: Budapest, Hungary
Registered: 2011-05-22
Posts: 44

Re: best non-systemd distro? archbang status?

@archbanger

Purely IMHO from an intermediate user:

- systemd tries to displace all other alternatives by taking over many other aspects of you system. this plus agressive marketing such as the adpotion by gnome means you can't use anything else but systemd!

- do you really want the core of your system handled by an arrgogant #$#%T who's goal was the above?

- we don't know what's going on. even though it's open source it's a convoluted crap and might be connecting secretly to the CIA etc. it's mega corporate crap due to affiliations with red hat aka asshat.

- do you want your system run by the above?

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#32 2012-10-12 06:10:58

ratcheer
Member
Registered: 2011-10-08
Posts: 114

Re: best non-systemd distro? archbang status?

I left Arch about a week ago. I bought a new disk drive and wanted it in a RAID-0 stripe with my old drive. To do that, I had to back up a bunch of stuff, then wipe the old drive. In the process, all my distros went down the drain - Arch, Ubuntu, Sabayon, and Siduction.

The only one I reinstalled was Siduction Linux. I installed it onto a 1.9 TB btrfs RAID 2-disk volume, leaving me an extra TB free on the new drive. The new system is leading edge, light, fast, and surprisingly stable. It is also very free, although I have necessarily allowed some nonfree firmware.

Sabayon was my second choice. I really like Sabayon, but some things about it bother me. Overlays are totally weird to my way of thinking. And even with a fresh LXDE install, it still seemed quite "heavy" and not necessarily slow, but laggy. Updates and upgrades are very slow; it seems to download a much higher volume of data to install the same updates as other distros. Since it is a "binary" distro, I do not understand why, but it does.

Arch and ArchBang have been great, but right now I am happy with my decision. Maybe I will come back someday.

Tim

Last edited by ratcheer (2012-10-12 06:14:12)

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