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#1 2012-09-10 03:49:13

ArchVortex
Retired
From: Bali
Registered: 2011-04-01
Posts: 1,464

Is It Time to Move Towards Forking Arch Without systemd?

Opening a thread to discuss the possibility of forking Arch to continue with status quo as opposed to running Arch with systemd. This thread is not to vent your frustration or disagreement with Arch Devs decision to migrate to systemd. There are enough threads like that around. I'd like to see ideas/proposals as to what would be needed to maintain the status quo and what possible problems may occur upstream in the future with udev, etc. Is it worth the time and energy to start a special repo for ArchBang as a fork for packages absorbed by systemd or would we be only buying time before the inevitable and upstream would shut the project down?


You have the capacity to learn from mistakes. You'll learn a lot today.
FP:E5F8 7DBA 8128 9ACB 75F7 7279 BE34 AB66 76D9 16DE
KEY ID:76D916DE
Currently running ArchBang / LinuxBBQ / Funtoo (FunBang?) / FreeBSD / SlackBang Current 14.2

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#2 2012-09-10 04:28:13

Mr Green
Administrator
Registered: 2010-11-07
Posts: 6,543

Re: Is It Time to Move Towards Forking Arch Without systemd?

Until Arch goes over completely to systemd we can keep initscripts running, current arch install iso still uses initscripts. Trying to maintain a another init system might be painful in the long run too. We are currently in limbo as regards to future iso releases as they will go out of date even quicker. Currently looking at adding netinstaller to abinstall to pull in fresh packages, but how it will work with our current installer/build scripts is anyone's guess. Do not have a problem with using systemd but want to aviod it if possible.


Best things in life are systemd free...

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#3 2012-09-10 04:29:50

pablokal
Administrator
From: Nijmegen, Holland
Registered: 2010-10-12
Posts: 3,569
Website

Re: Is It Time to Move Towards Forking Arch Without systemd?

We need to test the provided solutions around by Aline, and Jubei/gemma https://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=62593
See also http://bbs.archbang.org/profile.php?id=12850  Jubei and https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php … 8#p1158408 aline
The AB forums could become a safe haven for people trying to code and discuss the various technical problems and it would be great if it was possible to make the new AB iso  systemd free.

As we have hardly any coders in the AB project, the first thing would be to attract people who can and want to try it.
As regarding  the future developments, I would say that buying time is good enough for me.


Getting your questions answered here at ArchBang Forums
Please! Always give hardware info, if there is a chance that 's relevant: #lspci -vnn
On Arch(bang) and Openbox: http://stillstup.blogspot.com/

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#4 2012-09-10 05:35:29

marxav
Member
From: Gatineau, Qc
Registered: 2012-08-27
Posts: 43

Re: Is It Time to Move Towards Forking Arch Without systemd?

I think there are some other issues that should be considered disregarding the route that AB takes.  ArchVortex's quote:

The way that ArchBang is set up ATM is that it still has two already paid years left in the current situation http://bbs.archbang.org/viewtopic.php?id=3322

You should really consider taking control of your own infrastructure before making major steps forward.  Once there is a solid foundation, it will be easier to attract people and keep them around.

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#5 2012-09-10 06:32:56

Mr Green
Administrator
Registered: 2010-11-07
Posts: 6,543

Re: Is It Time to Move Towards Forking Arch Without systemd?

marxav has got a valid point, we do not have full control of webspace or forum it would be wise to create a site that we do have access too and link this to new one. We do need a repo set up for holding related files and source.


Best things in life are systemd free...

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#6 2012-09-10 07:18:25

marxav
Member
From: Gatineau, Qc
Registered: 2012-08-27
Posts: 43

Re: Is It Time to Move Towards Forking Arch Without systemd?

Thanks Mr Green.
Also, maybe a lesson learned, is that key people must have a mean to reach each other other than just email or personal web site.  Home address, phone number....  Some might find it too personal, but I say this is commitment.  Still it is not 100% guaranteed that a vanished administrator will be reacheable, but CYA and due diligence steps have been taken.  And of course, there should be more than one person with full privileges for critical tasks

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#7 2012-09-10 07:24:48

oliver
Administrator
Registered: 2010-11-04
Posts: 2,190

Re: Is It Time to Move Towards Forking Arch Without systemd?

ArchVortex wrote:

Opening a thread to discuss the possibility of forking Arch to continue with status quo as opposed to running Arch with systemd.

Has anyone in Arch officially stated that it's moving to systemd?  I know it looks likely but is it fait accompli?

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#8 2012-09-11 03:09:18

pablokal
Administrator
From: Nijmegen, Holland
Registered: 2010-10-12
Posts: 3,569
Website

Re: Is It Time to Move Towards Forking Arch Without systemd?

If you read the thread about udev less systemd: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=148429
and read the contributions of the leading devs it is not only certain but even a matter of principle ("we don't let us influence by those braindead people who have something against systemd")


Getting your questions answered here at ArchBang Forums
Please! Always give hardware info, if there is a chance that 's relevant: #lspci -vnn
On Arch(bang) and Openbox: http://stillstup.blogspot.com/

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#9 2012-09-11 03:23:59

Mr Green
Administrator
Registered: 2010-11-07
Posts: 6,543

Re: Is It Time to Move Towards Forking Arch Without systemd?

Maybe its time for SlackBang?


Best things in life are systemd free...

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#10 2012-09-11 05:20:34

marxav
Member
From: Gatineau, Qc
Registered: 2012-08-27
Posts: 43

Re: Is It Time to Move Towards Forking Arch Without systemd?

Mr Green wrote:

Maybe its time for SlackBang?

I installed Slackware last evening smile.  Having some issues dual booting but I think I know why.  Will see tonight.

Slackbang it with Openbox... smile

Last edited by marxav (2012-09-11 05:22:09)

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#11 2012-09-11 07:00:39

ArchVortex
Retired
From: Bali
Registered: 2011-04-01
Posts: 1,464

Re: Is It Time to Move Towards Forking Arch Without systemd?

From what I remember when Will asked me to take over was that the domain name was non-transferable and had to wait for the contract to run out.

REGISTRY WHOIS FOR ARCHBANG.ORG
Domain Name: archbang.org
Updated: 1 second ago - Refresh

Registrar: Tucows Inc. (R11-LROR)
Status: CLIENT TRANSFER PROHIBITED, CLIENT UPDATE PROHIBITED

Expiration Date: 2014-03-16 18:43:09
Creation Date: 2010-03-16 18:43:09
Last Update Date: 2012-02-19 19:04:16


You have the capacity to learn from mistakes. You'll learn a lot today.
FP:E5F8 7DBA 8128 9ACB 75F7 7279 BE34 AB66 76D9 16DE
KEY ID:76D916DE
Currently running ArchBang / LinuxBBQ / Funtoo (FunBang?) / FreeBSD / SlackBang Current 14.2

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#12 2012-09-11 07:36:59

ArchVortex
Retired
From: Bali
Registered: 2011-04-01
Posts: 1,464

Re: Is It Time to Move Towards Forking Arch Without systemd?

I already run what I would call SlackBang on my Slackware partitions. For those who haven't read this from LQ about Slackware and systemd:

http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions … md-885228/


You have the capacity to learn from mistakes. You'll learn a lot today.
FP:E5F8 7DBA 8128 9ACB 75F7 7279 BE34 AB66 76D9 16DE
KEY ID:76D916DE
Currently running ArchBang / LinuxBBQ / Funtoo (FunBang?) / FreeBSD / SlackBang Current 14.2

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#13 2012-09-11 07:51:48

marxav
Member
From: Gatineau, Qc
Registered: 2012-08-27
Posts: 43

Re: Is It Time to Move Towards Forking Arch Without systemd?

ArchVortex wrote:

I already run what I would call SlackBang on my Slackware partitions. For those who haven't read this from LQ about Slackware and systemd:

http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions … md-885228/

Thanks for the link, I shall check this out.

CLIENT TRANSFER PROHIBITED, CLIENT UPDATE PROHIBITED

 
Must had been a heck of a good deal to end up so locked down...

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#14 2012-09-11 16:20:33

scjet
Member
Registered: 2010-12-01
Posts: 1,460

Re: Is It Time to Move Towards Forking Arch Without systemd?

@AV, Thanks for the link, I really liked  Post#5 by "55020", within that link, although it may not make a difference.
wink

Last edited by scjet (2012-09-11 16:32:54)

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#15 2012-09-12 07:59:13

scjet
Member
Registered: 2010-12-01
Posts: 1,460

Re: Is It Time to Move Towards Forking Arch Without systemd?

All very valid points, especially https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=148429.

Needles to say,
1./  (most) Users will NOT re-complie for a "nosystemd" setup. So, whatever it ends up, it must be a fully functional drop-in replacement for a "nonsystemd" system. - and of course be constantly manintained. as you already mentioned.
2./ We'll almost need our own vigilant "upstream" just to watch Arch dev's "Upstream", and hopefully our "safe haven" don't leave the coope' either. ?

Is it worth the time and energy to start a special repo for ArchBang as a fork for packages absorbed by systemd...

?
Also, by 2014, (as mentioned here), that "free" DNS-provider thing will run out, and then we may need money for a more controllable and modifiable setup.

  I'll propose this "technical" scenario: "IF" for some reason maintaing "nonsystemd" pkg dropins don't work out, and/or become too much because of Arch upstream, then we just go back.

I'm only stateing the obvious, as I "practically" percieve it right now.
So, with all due respect I'm "out" on this decision. because, as it is now, ArchBang does not have enough C-Coders to maintain something like this.

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#16 2012-09-12 09:32:20

ArchVortex
Retired
From: Bali
Registered: 2011-04-01
Posts: 1,464

Re: Is It Time to Move Towards Forking Arch Without systemd?

@ scjet  I liked post #6, #157, #166 by Pat.

Also by ReaperX7 Post #167 "That's like sitting in the fireplace and Santa Claus taking a dump on your head as a Christmas present. Nobody wants crap, even at Christmas."

And by Eric in Post#436

"Slackware contains PAM libraries in /extra because some Google browser needs it. But, it is optional - you do not have to install PAM. In any case, PAM would (in my opinion) not make Slackware a more complex Linux system or take away control from the user.

NetworkManager again, is optional software for network configuration. You can use it, it will make your life easier if you are running about with a laptop, but you can choose between TWO other alternative network configuration methods, both of which allow console based configuration: WICD and the good old rc.inet1.conf way. How's that for choice and control!

Systemd on the other hand, takes away all your choices. You'll use systemd, period. All other software alternatives are systematically killed because compatibility is actively destroyed by Poettering and his band of brothers. It takes away control because it hides the inner workings of your computer from you, including the fact that it will scramble your log files so that you need another program to read your logs... what happened to vi, more or less?

Slackware never had as its primary goal to turn itself into just another clicky-gooey distro like you find on every streetcorner these days. We had a discussion in the team about how it may come to ditching all this Poettering-infested software and go back to a Slackware which requires more manual attention. Some people may whine and moan, but Slackware is about control. If I can no longer call it a "Swiss army knife of Linux distributions" I know that it has landed in a dead end. I will try not to fall into that trap. You should have the choice between more comfort and more control."


You have the capacity to learn from mistakes. You'll learn a lot today.
FP:E5F8 7DBA 8128 9ACB 75F7 7279 BE34 AB66 76D9 16DE
KEY ID:76D916DE
Currently running ArchBang / LinuxBBQ / Funtoo (FunBang?) / FreeBSD / SlackBang Current 14.2

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#17 2012-09-12 11:53:50

scjet
Member
Registered: 2010-12-01
Posts: 1,460

Re: Is It Time to Move Towards Forking Arch Without systemd?

@ArchVortex,

ok, and thanks for understanding my stance right now.
You have no idea how much I hated potentially having only "systemd", but hate/emotions/philosophy have only gotten be "banned" from here: https://bbs.archlinux.org/, and I must admit, rightly so. I went about it the wrong away.

Slackware was my very first "Linux" distro, (because there WAS no other Linux distro's out there, at that time). and that was back in '94 ? <- EDIT: aka "Walnut Creek" Cdroms. smile
It's kinda funny how the older tried-n-true distro's, such as Slackware,..., and even the other older UNIX-like OS's such as the *BSD's, will probably be the last ones to ever give into a "systemd"-only approach, although I hope not.

And again, from a technical standpoint, as an ex-Unix-Admin administering the "rc/init's" were the best, and simplest way to run a (24/7)SERVER. -imho.
Whichever way you guys decide to direct this, in other words,  having both a "systemd", and an "init" choice is obviously the very best for all concerned, then that's great, and I'll try to offer whatever little help I can.

Last edited by scjet (2012-09-12 12:11:16)

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#18 2012-09-12 14:51:04

ratcheer
Member
Registered: 2011-10-08
Posts: 114

Re: Is It Time to Move Towards Forking Arch Without systemd?

ArchVortex wrote:

Systemd on the other hand, takes away all your choices. You'll use systemd, period. All other software alternatives are systematically killed because compatibility is actively destroyed by Poettering and his band of brothers. It takes away control because it hides the inner workings of your computer from you, including the fact that it will scramble your log files so that you need another program to read your logs... what happened to vi, more or less?


^^
That completely sums up my philosophical objection to systemd, which I mentioned either earlier in this thread or in another thread on the same topic.

Tim

PS - I am looking very hard at Siduction Linux, a Debian derivative that has a stated major objective of remaining free (as in speech). It still has real run levels and it does not have anything like systemd or Upstart. I am unsure whether it has OpenRC, though - sometimes I think it does, other times I don't. It does, however, use udev and I am not sure how they are keeping that separate from systemd. I do not have in-depth knowledge of all this stuff.

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#19 2012-09-13 00:40:14

ArchVortex
Retired
From: Bali
Registered: 2011-04-01
Posts: 1,464

Re: Is It Time to Move Towards Forking Arch Without systemd?

@Tim

Debian is testing the systemd to sysvinit converter right now and I really don't think they will go the way of systemd. Also have a look at http://chili.siduction.org/ for work being done behind the scenes, what is planned and you can join the testers if you are so inclined. From my own personal experience I found aptosid better than siduction, siduction obviously not as mature and polished. The problem is aptosid doesn't really seem to be actively in development and siduction is. Given six months to one more year, I think will easily surpass aptosid.


You have the capacity to learn from mistakes. You'll learn a lot today.
FP:E5F8 7DBA 8128 9ACB 75F7 7279 BE34 AB66 76D9 16DE
KEY ID:76D916DE
Currently running ArchBang / LinuxBBQ / Funtoo (FunBang?) / FreeBSD / SlackBang Current 14.2

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#20 2012-10-12 15:48:39

Jubei-Mitsuyoshi
Member
Registered: 2012-09-07
Posts: 37

Re: Is It Time to Move Towards Forking Arch Without systemd?

Smiley's packages are all vanilla 86_64 so yes you do have a dropin replacement for systemd, plus he has a pretty good handle on keeping initscripts going.
For a fluxbox based system you have everything you could ever need , his packages stretch to xfce4, but the archive between us can build anything up to cinnamon. Everything checked working and he has a test xfce iso which is quite slick.
Archbang users would still be able to update inline with arch as long as we keep our maintained packages up to date, (which for the limited packages on a fluxbox system would be really easy, to the point that anyone could do it )  this would require a second repo ontop of arch standard repo's but we are very successfully using github for that, it has remarkable download rate considering.
We are using udev-fork which is slowly becoming a real alternative to udev-systemd, ( which by the way is now becoming unstable )
So practically sticking to arch would be quickest in strapping together another distro, you could use all your existing scripts and expertise. And not have to worry about systemd at all, just forget it exists and leave the rest to us smile
But there is the moral angle to consider aswell, as my friend pablokal pointed out dealing with arch is becoming painful from that point of view

So alternatives.. ( without systemd and going to stay that way )
Slackware ... not had any experience, but it really should have grub2, thats pretty much a must for multi-booting with windows and for efi, other than that heard its good and easy to compile on
Gentoo/Sabayon ...... what can i say brilliant smile best thing since sliced bread, could use sabayon binaries for core then built overlays for anything non standard you needed. But how would Arcbang users cope with portage? thats an ouch !
debian/ubuntu ....... debians packaging system is as complex as dante's mind !!! so you are pretty well stuck with vanilla binaries, which is cool since they are all there ( somewhere ) but crunchbang smile you two would be identical.
LFS.... actually a real alternative but no updates, strictly a single distro thing, and difficult to add extra apps.

and then there is frugalware, they have native systemd, but since they have a VERY similar build and packaging system to arch, that can be removed, and they are at heart slackware based, so you get slackware with pacman effectively. Also a big bonus they keep their packages maintained a lot better than arch, you can be pretty sure they will compile without problem.

So i dont think your short of alternatives , im not going anywhere, and i dont think smily is either, so you can rely on long term maintenance if you chose arch. ( and i have just learned gentoo packaging )
Finally it would be very good for udev-fork and VERY bad for systemd if you went for a udev-fork based distro, if udev-fork makes it to portage proper, and a few other distro's demonstrate it working well there is talk of shifting maintenance of udev proper to the fork, Arch bang could be influential in that shift and really nail systemd ( and nailing Arch since they would have to put EVERYTHING back again, now that would be a laugh !!! )

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#21 2012-10-12 20:34:55

smil3y
Member
From: Bulgaria
Registered: 2012-09-13
Posts: 176
Website

Re: Is It Time to Move Towards Forking Arch Without systemd?

Systemd can stay in the corner where it belongs! As long as the initscripts and udev-fork are maintained there will be replacement for it as far as booting is concerned. Problems will accure when it takes over consolekit, dbus and probably more. I'm up on the task in maintaining packages from core without systemd support but the packages that have some sort of systemd crap (yes, I'm starting to hate it for real) in it are far too much for me, full list according to my research is as follows:

acpid
ajaxterm
apcupsd
apper
apvlv
arch-wiki-lite
aria2
arptables
aspell-pl
atop
audex
audit
autofs
backuppc
bacula
bird
blueman
catalyst-utils
cdemu-daemon
chrony
collectd
connman
conntrack-tools
cwiid
dbmail
dcron
ddclient
deja-dup
dictd
distcc
dkms
drbd
driconf
dspam
ebtables
ejabberd
ekg2
electricsheep
exabgp
exim
fail2ban
fcgiwrap
fcron
ferm
festvox-ru
firehol
freeradius
frogatto
fusion-icon
glances
glob2
gnome-packagekit
gnome-settings-daemon-updates
gpac
grails
grsync
gsoap
gwibber
hashcash
haveged
hdapsd
hostapd
hunspell-pl
hyphen-pl
icecast
incron
inn
intellij-idea-community-edition
inxi
iperf
ipsec-tools
ipset
ipvsadm
ircservices
kdesvn
keepalived
kim4
laptop-mode-tools
libclastfm
libstatgrab
linux-tools
logwatch
luaposix
luasec
luasocket
lxdm
madman
mailman
mariadb
mcelog
me-tv
mfs
mget
mimetex
minbif
minidlna
miredo
mongodb
motion
mpdscribble
mplayer2
multipath-tools
murmur
mythtv
nbd
ndisc6
netperf
nginx
ngircd
noip
nsd
ntop
obconf
ogle-gui
ogre
oidentd
open-vm-tools
opencl-headers
openntpd
oss
partimage
pcsclite
pdnsd
percona-server
perl-danga-socket
perl-djabberd
perl-net-smtp-ssl
phppgadmin
polipo
postgrey
pound
preload
privoxy
prosody
pyicqt
python-geotypes
python-pysqlite-legacy
python-pyzmq
python2-meld3
qcad
qingy
qingy-theme-arch
quagga
radvd
redis
rng-tools
rsyslog
sauerbraten
ser2net
shorewall
skype-call-recorder
smbnetfs
spring-1944
sshguard
sslh
stunnel
supervisor
synergy
sysstat
systemd-arch-units
tarsnap
tenshi
tigervnc
tinc
tinyproxy
tksystray
tor
tremulous
ttf-droid
tuxguitar
ubuntu-sso-client
ucarp
udunits
ufw
ulogd
unbound
units
uptimed
ushare
uzbl
virtualbox
vnstat
vsftpd
wesnoth
wgetpaste
words
xl2tpd
xmobar
xnc
xpacman2
xrestop
xvba-video-open
zeromq
cronie
dbus-core
dhcpcd
dmraid
eventlog
glibc
gpm
iana-etc
inetutils
iptables
krb5
libnl
lvm2
mdadm
netcfg
nfs-utils
openldap
openssh
openvpn
pambase
ppp
rfkill
rp-pppoe
rpcbind
syslog-ng
systemd
util-linux
wpa_supplicant
xinetd
abiword
accountsservice
alsa-utils
apache
apache-ant
archboot
at
avahi
bcprov
bftpd
bind
bitlbee
bluez
brltty
calligra
capi4hylafax
clamav
colord
consolekit
cppunit
cups
cyrus-sasl
deluge
dhcp
digikam
dnsmasq
dovecot
fetchmail
flashplugin
fluidsynth
fprintd
fssos-nsvs
gconf
gdm
geoclue
ghostscript
gnome-control-center
gnome-online-accounts
gnome-session
gnome-settings-daemon
gpsd
hddtemp
hunspell-hu
hylafax
hyphen-de
hyphen-es
hyphen-hu
hyphen-it
hyphen-nl
i8kmon
icedtea-web
icedtea-web-java7
ifplugd
irqbalance
java-bcel
junit
kde-meta
kde-telepathy-meta
kdeaccessibility-kaccessible
kdebase
kdebase-workspace
kdebindings-korundum
kdenetwork
kdeplasma-addons
kdeplasma-applets-networkmanagement
libasyncns
libcanberra
libdrm
libdrm-old
libgdata
libkgapi
liblastfm
libnl1
libreoffice
libsocialweb
libssh
libtextcat
lighttpd
lirc
lm_sensors
memcached
metalog
misdnuser
modemmanager
mono-upnp
mpd
munin
mysql
mythes-en
mythes-hu
nepomuk-core
net-snmp
networkmanager
ntp
nxclient
obex-data-server
obexd
openslp
ossp
p7zip
perl-dbd-mysql
perl-io-socket-inet6
perl-io-socket-ssl
perl-lwp-protocol-https
perl-soap-lite
perl-socket6
php
postfix
postgresql
proftpd
python-nose
python-virtualenv
qoauth
rest
rsync
rtkit
samba
sane
slim
smartmontools
spamassassin
speech-dispatcher
subversion
tamu-anova
telepathy-kde-accounts-kcm
telepathy-kde-approver
telepathy-kde-auth-handler
telepathy-kde-call-ui
telepathy-kde-common-internals
telepathy-kde-contact-applet
telepathy-kde-contact-list
telepathy-kde-contact-runner
telepathy-kde-filetransfer-handler
telepathy-kde-integration-module
telepathy-kde-presence-applet
telepathy-kde-send-file
telepathy-kde-text-ui
tftp-hpa
timidity++
tomcat6
tomcat7
tracker
transmission
tumbler
udisks
udisks2
usbmuxd
varnish
virtuoso
vlc
vpnc
watchdog
webmin
wicd
x11vnc
xf86-video-mach64
xf86-video-mga
xf86-video-r128
xf86-video-savage
xf86-video-sis
xf86-video-sisimedia
xf86-video-tdfx
xorg-xdm
xsp
yp-tools
ypbind-mt
ypserv
zeitgeist
zsh
lib32-libasyncns
lib32-libdrm
lib32-libdrm-old

This includes core, extra, community and multilib and I don't plan buzzing with those. If anyone is up on helping with this (except Jubei) I think we can fork it as Jubei said - an addon repository with our own packages that replace those from Arch (which requires immidiate update upon bump on the Arch packages) without changing the names of the packages meaning less effort or just separate group that can replaces the packages for real and unless we update them updates are not coming to the end-users. The second method should be the way to go, and you should be familiar what exactly needs to be done - conflict, replace, provide, groups, pkgname, _axepkgname. I've tried to automate the whole sync thing but it fails big time. The following script I wrote to strip all systemd reference but it causes EOF errors in the PKGBUILDs because it doesn't strip quotes properly:

#!/bin/bash

cd $(dirname $0)
source common.sh

# allow override via argument
if [ -n "${1}" ];then
    pkgs="${1}"
else
    msg "Searching for packages..."
    pkgs="$(find /var/abs/core -type f -name PKGBUILD)"
fi

# update ABS working tree
msg "Invoking ABS..."
abs || die

for pkg in ${pkgs};do
    pkgdir="$(dirname ${pkg})"
    pkgbase="$(basename ${pkgdir})"
    
    # ignore systemd itself
    if [ "${pkgbase}" = "systemd" ];then
        continue
    fi
    
    # check if sync is needed at all
    if [ -d "${pkgbase}" ] && \
    [ "$(parse_pkg ${pkgdir} pkgver)" = "$(parse_pkg ${pkgbase} pkgver)" ] && \
    [ "$(parse_pkg ${pkgdir} pkgrel)" = "$(parse_pkg ${pkgbase} pkgrel)" ];then
        msg2 "${pkgbase} is up-to-date"
        continue
    elif [ -n "$(grep -e '.service' -e '.unit' -e '.socket' -e '/usr/lib/systemd' -e 'enable-systemd' ${pkg})" ];then
        msg2 "${pkgbase} must be synced, do you want to do it now?"
        read answer
        if [ "${answer}" = "y" ];then
            msg2 "Sync: ${pkgbase}"
            if [ -d "${pkgbase}" ];then
                rm -r "${pkgbase}" || die
            fi
            cp -a ${pkgdir} "${pkgbase}" || die
            echo "$(date)" > "${pkgbase}/sync.txt" || die

            junk="$(find ${pkgbase} -type f -name *.service -o -name *.unit -o -name *.socket)"
            if [ -n "${junk}" ];then
                msg2 "Strip: ${pkgbase}"
                rm -f "${junk}" || die
            fi
        
          msg2 "Fix: ${pkgbase}"
          (sed -e 's|--enable-systemd||g' \
              -e '/--with-systemdsystemunitdir/d' \
              -e '/.*usr\/lib\/systemd/d' \
              -e "s|'*.service'||g" \
              -e 's|"*.service"||g' \
              -e 's|*.service||g' \
              -e "s|'*.unit'||g" \
              -e 's|"*.unit"||g' \
              -e 's|*.unit||g' \
              -e "s|'*.socket'||g" \
              -e 's|"*.socket"||g' \
              -e 's|*.socket||g' \
              -e "s|'*.systemd'||g" \
              -e 's|"*.systemd"||g' \
              -e 's|*.systemd||g' \
              -i "${pkgbase}/PKGBUILD"
           cd "${pkgbase}"
           makepkg -g --asroot >> PKGBUILD
           cd -) || die
        fi
    fi
done

It is in my testing repository if anyone wants to take a peak into it: https://github.com/fluxer/LSD. If I can polish this script and put it into a cron job to sync and build every hour (Jubei was mentioning something about a server he can provide) then that would be cool! There is only one problem - not all of the packages compile peacefully from x86_64 for i686 so Jubei will have to help with the toolchains probably smile

Last edited by smil3y (2012-10-12 21:03:43)


GNU/Linux does not stop you from doing stupid things, because that would also stop you from doing clever things.

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#22 2012-10-12 21:23:59

handy
Member
Registered: 2011-11-03
Posts: 501

Re: Is It Time to Move Towards Forking Arch Without systemd?

I for one hope that ArchBang goes down the Fork road, which is easy to say when you don't have any of the skills required to assist in the task of maintaining packages.

I like this from Jubei:

Finally it would be very good for udev-fork and VERY bad for systemd if you went for a udev-fork based distro, if udev-fork makes it to portage proper, and a few other distro's demonstrate it working well there is talk of shifting maintenance of udev proper to the fork, Arch bang could be influential in that shift and really nail systemd ( and nailing Arch since they would have to put EVERYTHING back again, now that would be a laugh !!! )

big_smile big_smile big_smile

That surely would be a bitter pill for some to swallow...

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#23 2012-10-13 01:35:35

Jubei-Mitsuyoshi
Member
Registered: 2012-09-07
Posts: 37

Re: Is It Time to Move Towards Forking Arch Without systemd?

im working with the udev people to get the fork into a deb and then put it in the stream towards experimenta/sid , (debian ), i still know a few people from my debian days smile only problem debian is well busy with wheezy and bug hunting for the release, so will take time to migrate upwards.
Smily is correct with the list, and like him im really not sure it can be done "automatically" ( although jesus smily you almost got it !! your sed is becoming really slick i like it !! ) all the important packages on that list have been done INITIALLY but as smily pointed out each one will have to be maintained individually ( by hand ), its work but not impossible, how much work depends entirely on arch and how much it squirms about as a distro, they shift sonames at the drop of a hat, found that out when was building, the optimized binaries would only stay in sync with arch central for about a week till something happened and had to recompile.
Again though looking at the big picture when udev-fork becomes udev this whole problem goes away smile systemd becomes just another init that can be easily replaced, and hey we are all back smile We can easily keep things going for 2 or 3 months till that happens, but we need to help make it happen.

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